This board has been a little to quiet for while.

Is it time that Bush and Blair who is a close friend and confidant of Bush were tried for War Crimes?

Do you think the use by the American Administrations of renditions are War Crimes and committed with full knowledge of American and British leaders ie. Blair and Bush and they are ultimately responsible?

Also in the aftermath of the illegal invasion of Iraq are should their action seen to be as the provocation for the rising toll of British, American and Iraqi deaths.

As a result of the military intervention in Iraq do you think you are safer in Britain to-day?

Do you think one should expect government leaders and ministers who have been responsible for massive foreseeable casualties should visit the hospitals to meet the casualties they have produced directly or indirectly by their actions?

Straight to the point, Fred!
I feel that Iran must be prevented from amassing a nuclear capability, but that force is a last resort, not a first choice.

Some brillant comments and insightful observations from the panel, especially Matthew Parris and Lord Tebbit, and member of the audience, in last night's "Question Time".

BBC Question Time

"Is a slave a slave if he does not know he is enslave?" - Dr. Who

...

Are victims of deception victims if they do not know they have been deceived?

etc
etc

that ones over my head. wwwwwooooooooooossssshhhhhhhhh

what the feck is axdpc on about

its simple really axdpc

your on our team or ur on their's

simple for simple people, since when as it ever been a us against them. What a single Iragi ever done to us???

they gave us a free saddam

need a say more

Kivver, Do you ever feel you are wasting your time?

Kivver - your right it is simple - It's nothing to do with the iraqi people themselves. Genrally they are ordinary people, its the old regime, ie saddam and his cronies that were threatning whe whole area.

Oil is much too important to be left in the hands of peasants.

Marc - your right, but remember it the west set up Saddam with his weapons in the first place, partly hoping they would win the against Iran.

In theory, one of our greatest allies is France, yet we have had more wars against them than any other nation on earth.
Alliances and aleigences change, sometimes distressingly quickly, as world opinion, leaders and ids move on.
When we were arming Saddam, he was a lesser threat than Iran under the Ayatollahs. When we were supporting Afghanistan, they were a lesser threat than the soviet bloc. Idealism is fine, but international politics, especially where warfare and WMD is concerned requires pragmatism and realism.
Saddam made it very clear that UN inspectors were not welcome and what happened in Iraq was his affair. The world was worried, and quite rightly. The UK, USA, China, India, Pakistan and all other nuclear nations are monitored extremely closely, and countries who show any signs of nuclear abilities are similarly visited.
It is the most regulated industry in the world and the basis for it is spelt out in the non-proliferation treaties, signed by every country on the planet.
He created his own problem. Had he given free access and unencumbered assistance to the inspectors, he would not have breached any ruling, and I sincerely believe would still be president.
Iran are, unfortunately following the same path. Why should these countries be exempted from a treaty that they agreed to and has kept the world a safer place for as long as it has?
Iran can prevent any action, right now, by simply allowing the inspectors to inspect. They can carry on with their mission to create nuclear energy plants, but it must be under international control. For our safety from potential WMD but also in order that another Chernobyl is avoided.
Fallout does not respect international boundries.
Alan

I think all research facilities in Britain and America should be open to World Inspection at any time of day and night. Like their torture chambers at G.Bay.

I think we need level playing fields.

I think anybody who disagrees with Kivver, axdpc or me should be nuked. Solve their b. problem. Like all those who sell their shares just after I decide to buy them.

I think all research facilities in Britain and America should be open to World Inspection at any time of day and night. Like their torture chambers at G.Bay.

They are.
I think the rest was in jest (I hope!!)
Alan

Some thoughts;

The bottom line is if a country wants to develope WMDs then it will, either publicly or in secret....

Is there a single country with a weapons inventory? I think not...

Turkey is closer to home, a currupt country with a communist past and communist in places still... I would have put Turkey at a higher level threat to the UK than Iran...

Alan would you agree??

Blinger - "Oil is much too important to be left in the hands of peasants." Why?? I bet Saddam said the same thing before using chemical warware against the Kurds..

Hi kivver,
Its fairly tough to develop WMD in secret because the raw materials are so colosely guarded and monitored. Its not beyond imagination that someone might, but the facilities required are very difficult to hide from satellites. You can however look like it is for energy, when weapons are the end game, as Iran MAY be doing now.
The UN maintains an inventory of nuclear material, and chemical material, and inspects and audits on a regular basis. Including here in the UK.
Don't know too much about Turkey, so its hard to comment but they appear to be in so much internal turmoil as hard line Muslims and modernisors battle it out over the future direction of Turkey, that they don't strike me as much of a threat at the moment. It speaks volumes though that the power struggle there between western ideals and prosperity and fidelity to shariah laws goes on without apparent major bloodshed.
Like i say, this is just an impression, as I don't know the country too well, but I read a very interesting (and very long) article a couple of years back about the struggle of Turkish women for the right not to have to wear a burkha for their jobs as civil servants. They won the right and I remember being astonished at this, as I was so used to reading about the Talibans treatment of women, or seeing how women were treat when i lived in the UAE.
I don't doubt the corruption bit. It seems almost mandatory to be corrupt in many parts of the world, and given the recent Italian governments histories, we don't have any reason to be smug in Europe!!
Alan

No Sadam is a peasant too, thats why we took Iraq from him- grow up boys you don`t really think there was any other reason?
Energy can neither be created or destroyed, oil=energy, energy= money, money = power.The circle is closed finite energy is needed by the powerful, at the moment we are powerful.It may change in centuries to come, but the same energy will still be finite and fought over.

Hi Alan, you put hi kivver on your post i think you meant to put Hi Explosive.

One thing i do remember about fairness and honesty was Americas 'stars war' programme where they insisted they would be the only country to have them and didnt want anybody else invovled.

I stand corrected, Kivver. Sorry explosive!!!!
Reading this morning that the UN is looking toothless in its security council with regard to Iran. This is because China nad Russia are likely to veto any sanctions.
This is not political ideology, or social conscience, but the defence of contracts to build the infrastructure for uranium enrichment. I am happier with people arguing against sanctions on the basis of morality than the export value.
On a seperate note, the Ukraine, again for financial reasons, wishes to start enriching its own uranium. Even though the Ukraine is somewhat less than stable, I have no great issue with this. If you remember, when the soviet union broke up Ukraine inherited a huge nuclear arsenal, which it propmptly sent to russia for destruction. My only concern is that it is supervised by an international body for safetys sake. Remember Chernobyl!!
Alan

allan ur getting the point

china russia are big contractors in this country

but they are not getting there nuke stuff off them

there getting it off of ??????????????????

look and u shall find

as for the rest off the horseshit on here its simple

if someone comes up to u when ur out with ur wife and kids and says right ive got a huge big knife and im going to kill u all what do u do????????

say ok??(dont think so)

say hey lets get round the table and try to be friends even though i know ur out to kill me????(probably a bad idea)

or do u say ok m8 pull out ur browning 9mm and shoot the clown dead??(this way u know ur safe and he aint comming back at u,unlike saddam)

now take me little thoughts and put them on the bigger screen

this is what iran is saying and has been saying for the last three years

were not going to say ok u can have the capability to wipe out millions if u want

weve tried the lets talk they dont want to know

we aint got a lot of processes left to us

before answering this ask ur self this..

if they got the big one and say they decide to nuke ur house in ten years will u say then hey deadfred and alan might have been right or do u say well i was wrong about them

remember they look at all westerners and thats all as infidiles(its in there book)

also remember this israel has had the nuke for over 20 yrs now and apart from constant terrorist attacks(from both sides i might add) the peace in the middle east has been held

ok it might not look like it to some but overall it has

now israel is on record as saying there is no way in hell that iran is getting its weapon(which in my opinion is right)and they have said to the the world that they better sort it or they will(and i think in the past they have shown they will stand up for there ppl,they already took out irans nuke program back in the 80's)

now going from relative peace to chaos aint good for the whole world never mind middle east so im my opinion take out the problem which is iran

i dont mean fight the whole country we dont have to

there facilities are well marked and can be hit with off-shore missiles or just let the israelies loose they will do it for us and dont mind getting sanctioned for a year or two

that way the russians get there money the chinese get there money and were blameless

i know what id do mind u i like shamless on channel 4

life