Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Part of the problem with the Iraqui oil-for-food abuse was that senior UN personnel were lining their pockets - including familily members of the then Secretary-General. Another reason why the US was pissed with the UN.

Very true. The main drawback to stopping the oil was corruption in almost every area. There were allegations about French officials, George Galloway and plenty of others. Syria, Jordan, Turkey were all in on the act as well. One of the biggest leaky holes was through Iran.

'but perhaps you are an expert on such a subject'

It took you a while, but you eventually got something right!

I had already realised that you think yourself to be an expert on many things.

oi, pth! How dare you!

I think a re-clarification of roles is necessary.

It's *my* job to squabble with Haystack on this thread.

Haystack's job is generally to troll and specifically to agree with Fred; To repost discredited bollocks time and time again using a broken keyboard that can't spell words like 'negotiate'. (NB Haystack retains chief Fred squabbling rights on all domestic political threads).

Fahel's in charge of pidgin english cut-and-pastes from dodgy radical islamist websites.

Clubman is in charge of attention seeking poo jokes, puerile faecal posts and other wastes of bandwidth. He may soon be up for promotion to willy jokes.

Your role, ptholden, together with MM and Isaacs is to be the voices of reason. You're supposed to pop up every now and again and destroy pages and pages of waffling argument with a well aimed single line post that decisively cuts to the heart of the matter and allows the argument to move on (after Haystack gets the last word by reposting some other discredited nonsense whilst pretending not to realise that what he's posting has just been proven to be crap).

Cynic, as Fred's understudy, is learning well when it comes to rambling posts expressing spurious opinions backed up by quotes from dubious sources that singularly fail to make any point, beyond the standard: "Israel, America and the Tories are the great Satans". He needs to work more on understudying Fred's use of Bold Text. In general though, he sticks well to his role.

Who have I missed?

After BP's well started dumping tens of thousands of
barrels of oil into the Gulf of Mexico, it took WEEKS to
get Obama to even begin to posture on the problem.

Yet within minutes after reports of Israeli commandos
slaughtering relief workers in international waters,
Obama was on the phone offering his political help to
the Israeli prime minister.

What a total disgrace.

Video:

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/858.html

terrorism weapons Marmara Turkish ship

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEBKu2TvVaE&annotation_id=annotation_82093&feature=iv

Palestine.

1. When was it founded and by whom?


2. What were its borders?


3. What was its capital?


4. What were its major cities?


5. What constituted the basis of its economy?


6. What was its form of government?


7. Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?


8. Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?


9. What was the language of the country of Palestine ?


10. What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine ?


11. What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and tell what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese Yuan on that date.


12. And, finally, since there is no such country today, what caused its demise and when did it occur?


You are lamenting the "low sinking" of a "once proud" nation. Please tell me, when exactly was that "nation" proud and what was it so proud of?


And here is the least sarcastic question of all: If the people you mistakenly call "Palestinians" are anything but generic Arabs collected from all over -- or thrown out of -- the Arab world, if they really have a genuine ethnic identity that gives them right for self-determination, why did they never try to become independent until Arabs suffered their devastating defeat in the Six Day War?

I hope you avoid the temptation to trace the modern day "Palestinians" to the Biblical Philistines: substituting etymology for history won't work here.


The truth should be obvious to everyone who wants to know it. Arab countries have never abandoned the dream of destroying Israel ; they still cherish it today. Having time and again failed to achieve their evil goal with military means, they decided to fight Israel by proxy. For that purpose, they created a terrorist organization, cynically called it "the Palestinian people" and installed it in Gaza , Judea, and Samaria . How else can you explain the refusal by Jordan and Egypt to unconditionally accept back the "West Bank" and Gaza , respectively?

Fahel-I will accept your answers on a postage stamp.

Gausie-you forgot me.

Yuff,

With the statement:

"If the people you mistakenly call "Israelis" are anything but generic Arabs collected from all over -- or thrown out of -- the Arab world,"


I thought it could be accurately applied when describing the New Israelis.

Check and compare the generic constitution of Arabs and Israelis.

ptholden
I have asked someone with experience of cargo ships about this stop and search business. He was an officer in the Merchant Navy for more than 40 years. He sees no reason that in most situations, you can't search a ship at sea.

He did come up with one suggestion that does show up Israel's real intentions though. He said that if the ships are taken to the port of Ashdod why can't they search the ships there and let them proceed to sail to Gaza which looks to be about 30 miles to the northerly end, instead of offloading their cargo and transporting it by road to Gaza as the Israeli have suggested. The ships can easily be monitored to be sure that no further cargo is loaded onto them.

Gausie - lol

haystack - what are the many things? You have strayed into my area of expertise, I know the maritime, first hand knowledge and experience. You on the other hand, don't.

06/06/2010 - 08:50 AM

Two non-governmental organizations announced in Beirut on Saturday that a Lebanese ship loaded with humanitarian assistance would set sail to Gaza Strip next week.

The Free Palestine movement and reporters without borders held a joint press conference during which they announced the new plan.

The head of Free Palestine movement, Yasser Al-Qashlaq, said that the ship would carry educational material and other relief aid to the besieged Palestinian children in Gaza.

He invited freedom-loving individuals to join the sea voyage.

Thaer Ghandour, speaking for reporters without borders, said that the ship would also carry 50 reporters and 25 European activists including MPs.

Even in the San Remo manual searches at sea are expected.

Section II Visit and search of merchant vessels

There was no consent from the marchant ship

119. As an alternative to visit and search, a neutral merchant vessel may, with its consent, be diverted from its declared destination.

The stopping and diverting of the ship yesterday was neither impossible nor unsafe. The passangers had surrendered without incident and the ship was in calm waters.

121. If visit and search at sea is impossible or unsafe, a belligerent warship or military aircraft may divert a merchant vessel to an appropriate area or port in order to exercise the right of visit and search.

Haystack - "The passengers had surrendered without incident" - Do you really believe that statement? Do you think that if you say it enough times it will become true?

I don't understand why you keep on posting the same discredited crap, time and time again. Do you really believe it? Or is posting these lies your favourite trolling technique?

.

Haystack - I have no experience of searching ships at see but thinking practically if a ship is stuffed full of 20/40 ft containers and pallets upon pallets of things all piled up how do you search at sea? Don't you need to move containers around to get to ones in the middle? Don't you need a lot of space to unpack things? Don't you need cranes and heavy lifting gear? Imagine 100 suitcase piled up to the ceiling of a small room and multiply that by a few thousand times. Not an easy job especially if looking for a needle (rocket) in a haystack.

yuff

good post

Gausie

"The passengers had surrendered without incident"

That is NOT what I posted. This is what I posted. I was referring to the ship stopped yesterday - The Irish ship.

"The stopping and diverting of the ship yesterday was neither impossible nor unsafe. The passengers had surrendered without incident and the ship was in calm waters."

Anyway, even if the searching of the ship at sea was not to Israel's liking then the ship can be searched in Ashdod and then allowed to sail to Gaza. But that wouldn't suit Israel as they want to blockade Gaza symbolically as well as physically. Israel has promised to deliver the cargo by land, which will entail offloading the cargo and reloading onto lorries after a search. Why not just reload the cargo and let the ship go to Gaza with the people on board.

Issacs, you have of course hit the nail on the head. But it's even more difficult than that. For instance if there was intent to smuggle arms into Gaza, it is unlikley they would survive a through search, once all containers, pallets and other cargo had been discharged, there is then the problem of searching the ship itself. The Iraqi oil smugglers and even drug smugglers have proven to be incredibly adept and ingenious at creating false tanks, double bottoms in the smallest of vessels, which actually was my point all along.

haystack is very lucky insomuch he has Jewish friends which provse he is not anti-semetic, Algerian friends which proves he is not anti-arab and a merchant navy friend which proves he is qualified to opiniate on all matters Stop and Search at sea.