Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

lord preserve us from this unending stream of diarrhea

Hamas has a number of strategies for the next year or so. They want to further isolate Israel and the freedom flotillas have been a beginning in this, they also want to unite more of the Arab countries behind them and once again the flotillas have been a trigger. They are trying to show Fatah and the PA up as been ineffective.

Fatah have been making conciliatory approaches to Hamas, but Hamas have said that they are not interested unless Fatah reiterate the calls for the removal of Israel, which they wont as the PA (Palestinian Authority) have dropped that stance. Hamas are fairly successfully turning world opinion against the US for not being tough enough on Israel over the flotilla. They will create new situations that will cause problems for Israel and the US.

I thought that last week was interesting regarding how Hamas behaves now. The previous head of the PA, Mahmoud Abbas, told U.S. Jewish leaders earlier in the week that he "would never deny Jews their right to the land of Israel". As the ex head of the PA, he could say that. The PA would not go quite as far as that, but expressed general support for his comments. Hamas could have immediately come out and condemned this betrayal of Palestine. However, they waited a few days. This gave the Palestinians themselves some time to take in what had been said. When the inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza complained about this comment then Hamas joined in and denounced it. This helped create a division between the PA and the actual Palestinians and sidelined Fatah, who avoided any comment at all. Hamas now have substantial political ambitions in the West Bank and will try and disrupt the current stability there. The US is desperately pouring money into the West Bank to create a possible prosperous model for a Palestinians state.

For yuff read guff

Honestly , what a load of biased bollocks .

So anyone who doesnt blindly accept the right wing view of Israel is anti-semitic .. well that includes a sizable proportion of Israeli`s as well as most right thinking people .

Jeez

Juff,

I think I read that you pertained to be a journalist. If that is correct, I only hope that any readers you may have. have more common sense than you seem to have.

Hays.

I think the people on the boat had legitimate rights to defend their property ie. ships and cargo, as the Israelis were acting criminally and in the fashion of
"pirates".

Their actions, other than for a few sympathisers, have been condemned their actions as premeditated and therefore murder.

I understand why Hamas fire rockets into Israel and follow their logic in doing so, but I don't condone the indiscriminate taking of life by either sides in the conflict.

I understand the need of Hamas and the Arabs, to keep Gaza and the abuse shown by Israelis to the rights of Arabs in that area, and understand that the use of rockets does something to maintain world attention and get some to the press to continuing monitoring the ongoing.

The problem the Arabs have in putting forward their legitimate case, is the media and large amounts of the press are beholding to various Jewish Lobbies who to say the least are biased.

This is fairly apparent to those who have had any interest in the world affairs for the last 50 years.

(The internet is allowing various "minority" groups to put forward their cases.)

This is interesting

Former EU commissioner for external affairs Chris Patten urged the European countries to open dialog with Hamas Movement and not allow the US to monopolize the international political arena.

In an article published by the Guardian newspaper on Friday, Patten said that without Hamas, there would be no peace settlement and described the insistence on Hamas to accept all past agreements while Israel is not demanded to respect them as "bizarre".

It is true that the US has the primary external role in the region, and that any peace settlement will require Israel's willing agreement. But none of this justifies the EU's nervous effacement. This removes much of the political price the US should pay when it does nothing or too little. It gives Israel carte blanche, the European official stressed.

He added that the declining role of Europe damages Europe's relationship with its partners in the Union for the Mediterranean and makes Europe complicit in Israels outrageous and illegal acts.

Fred-I am glad that you found time to read my post.

Most people here will just gloss over the article with no more than a passing insult.No problem. Just shows how shallow some mentalities can be.

haystack- for you to say If I had any spare money I might give them some to buy some more rockets. really does lower you in my estimation. Not of course that this would bother you.
I am sad for you that you can be so bitter and twisted and cannot see the real issue here.
Never mind ,the world is full of people such as yourself .I have come to terms with this and can live with it.

Those rockets have killed hundreds of Israelis, nearly all civilians

Cant really be bothered with such ill informed nonsense BUT just to make the point ... 22 people have actually been killed by rockets since 2000 .

They are more a terrorist weapon than an efficient method of killing people .

However i obviously accept one innocent life is one too many .

Cynic,

From P 2770. I gather that somebody doesn't like my use of the word FERMENT and suggests I should have used FOMENT.

I think when I used FERMENT I was being pejorative and critical of the actions.

Also comes from my long term interest in the products of fermentation.

But the English language is a beautiful language and the nuances of the words is fascinating.

===========


Promulgate verb

1. promulgate the information about the project to the townspeople make known, make public, publicize, announce, spread, communicate, disseminate, circulate, broadcast.

=========
2. promulgate the new law proclaim, announce, declare, herald, blazon, trumpet.


=================
Ferment

1 Leaven, yeast; a fermenting agent; arch. an enzyme. LME.

2 = FERMENTATION 1. E17. b fig. Agitation, excitement, tumult. L17.
ferment verb

1. beer/yeast mixtures fermenting undergo fermentation, foam, froth, bubble, effervesce, seethe, boil, rise, work.

2. ferment the beer/yeast mixture subject to fermentation, cause to effervesce.

3. his words fermenting the crowd excite, agitate, inflame, incite.

4. ferment trouble cause, incite, excite, provoke, arouse, stir up, foment.

5. the crowd fermenting with excitement seethe, smoulder, boil, be agitated.

---------------
Foment verb

instigate, incite, provoke, agitate, excite, stir up, arouse, encourage, urge, actuate, initiate.

I think that Fred is the last person from whom I'm prepared to take instruction in the English language.

Hamas are firing rockets into areas that are Palestinian land. The numbers hurt are tiny compared to the numbers of people killed by Israeli toops in Gaz, which come to thousands. I believe it was 1,300 just in the last Gaza incursion.

If the Israelis don't want to be fired upon by rockets, then don't live there.

Hays.

There is an area labelled grey, and the majority of us tend to live in that area.

I think the 1,300 is high, I think that figure includes injured. But I maybe wrong, but the action was at the least disproportionate, ultimately stupid and not gainful for Israel. The result was to refocus world attention on the area once again and discredit Israel even more.

However, one wrong does not justify another and taking another life is difficult to justify for me in any circumstance.

I can not see any possibility of Jewish Israelis relinquishing Israel and I think that the most the Arabs can expect in that state for the short while, is equal legal, political representational and human rights, for all those living within the borders of that state. it will have to be a secular state, which it already claims to be, for that to occur. The Fundamentalists of all groups have to be marginalised, but still involved, but their influence proportional to their number.


Long term, it will depend on the growth rate of the different groups.

The problems is getting all groups, including Hamas and Fatah, to the table
and them understanding and accepting some unpalatable "truths" and acting for the general benefit of all.

The negotiators have to be those who are living in that area or recently expelled from that area, with the possibility of external arbitrators.

I had hoped that Obama might knock some sense into the Israelis administration and the Arabs involved in the confrontations and use the pressure which the USA obviously has at this moment in time.

However, I am no longer certain that Obama has the stomach or courage to do so.

Israel claim 1,166 killed in Gaza during the last Gaza conflict and Palestine claims between 1,385 and 1,440. Thhere were 50,800 Gaza residents displaced. Over 4,000 homes destroyed and around $2bn worth of damage to Gaza.

This is a pictorial view of the numbers killed prior to the last Gaza war during January-December 2008.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Israelis_killed_by_Palestinians_in_Israel_and_Palestinians_killed_by_Israelis_in_Gaza_-_2008_prior_to_Gaza_War.png

Gaza's in hospital after a car crash.

well, that's his world cup over, then !

gaza's more likely to pissed out of his mind, and now in tears

Iranian national radio reported today that Tehran sent two ships to aid the besieged Gaza Strip, confirming that one of the ships left the port on Sunday, while the other will leave by next Friday, loaded with food, construction materials, and toys.

That'll go down well. Two ships, flagged by a nation whose leader thinks Israel should be wiped off the face of the Earth, are going to run the blockade with a cargo of "toys". Doubtless manned by peace-loving revolutionary guards and Hizbollah operatives.

israel has certainly made a rod for its own back by the inept handling of the first incident ..... for sure the iranian vessels will be intercepted, and it'll be interesting to see if they "resist arrest" and if so, how ..... of course it's as provocative a move as could be contrived, and assuredly nothing whatsoever to do with relieving the plight of the general populace in gaza - for whom i have huge sympathy

Cynic,

Agreed.

But, the "handling" or "dealings" with Iran have been from the time of implanting of the "Shah" by the British and America prior to 1979 was cynical and inept.

If acceptance of the political change had been accepted, rather than obstructed and undermined, then probably a more moderate Iran would have evolved.

http://www.mideastweb.org/iranhistory.htm

Excerpt from ran: Iran Brief History


"By 1953, General Eisenhower had become president of the US. Anti-communist hysteria was reaching its peak. An Iranian general offered to help in overthrow Mosaddeq, and the British were able to persuade the American CIA to go ahead with the coup in August. With very scant resources and a shoe-string operational plan, the CIA set out to remove Mosaddeq. The plan almost failed, and the Shah, never very resolute, had fled to Baghdad and had to be enticed to continue playing his part from there. The army was loyal to the Shah and Mosaddeq was overthrown and arrested. This coup earned the USA and Britain the lasting hatred of large sectors of Iranian public opinion, uniting communists, nationalists and Shi'ite clericalists behind enmity to foreign meddling. Mosaddeq became a folk hero of Iranian nationalism.

In the context of regional turmoil and the Cold War, the Shah established himself as an indispensable ally of the West. In the Middle East, Iran stood out as one of the few friends of Israel, a friendship that allegedly extended to Israeli help in running the SAVAK, the hated Iranian secret service. Domestically, he advocated reform policies, culminating in the 1963 program known as the White Revolution, which included land reform, the extension of voting rights to women, and the elimination of illiteracy.
====================


With the recent orchestrated sanctioning against Iran by the Americans and stupidities of Israel, one could have expected some challenges from Iran.

I hope that it does not escalate into a full scale confrontation.

========

Looking at this present period, one can see many economic, political and religious (positioning) similarities with the 1930s. The "frictions" , which "allowed" the extremists and fanatics to gain power and led to WW2.

It seems a very dangerous period.

Hope I am wrong.

=======================

fred - please take immodium and lots of it