Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

ITLB - why are you so convinced Haystack is an anti-semite?

When he suggested chipping into the Hamas rocket fund, he wasn't being anti-semitic.

He was just being a c*nt.

but it's a good exercise chipping into those too .... ask tiger woods!

In The Land of the B

I don't want to get rid of the people in Israel, just Israel as an entity. Rename it Palestine and make everyone living there equal and let back in all the Palestinians refugees and people displaced by Israel. Have an election and set up a new government with PR so that everyone gets a few seats. There are Arab MPs now in the Israeli parliament, but they get threatened with expulsion if they say anything against government policy such as killing people on humanitarian flotillas.

Gausie is just being Gausie and not to be taken too seriously. Funding the rocket fund for Hamsas would be similar to donating to the people of Tibet who are oppressed by China.

now try to get sensible haystack
israel is here to stay...... however, in many people's opinion including my own, its gov't has severely overstepped the mark .... not only has israel annexed additional territory under a variety of pretexts, but it has also severely mistreated the ordinary populace of gaza, again under a variety of excuses

no, i am not an apologist for hamas and hezbollah - heaven forfend .... they too are a bunch of murdering thugs, but that does not excuse israel's abuse of humanity to the ordinary citizens

and yes, i do believe there should be a separate state of palestine

As I've said before, there has to be an independent Palestine and the vast majority of Israelis know that.
Personally I disagree with many of the policies of their current government and of the militant settlers.
I think Isreal is right in this war situation to blockade Gaza as long as the policy of the latter is to destroy Israel. However the blockade should be of military material, not foodstuffs etc. The current policy of stopping certain non-military items is pointless and was stupidly designed to try to increase the disatisfaction of the populace with Hamas. Plainly futile.
However, the boarding of the ship was correct and of the six vessels in the flotilla only one had the extremists aboard and was crazy and hate-filled enough to attack the soldiers with iron bars, axes etc. Do that to a boarding party anywhere in the world and you will be killed.
The Turkish IHH members were determined to cause bloodshed and they got their way. To pretend they were peace loving caring folk beggars belief - though some, like fred, fahel and haymaker here, will believe anything anti-Israel.
What is sad is that some here use their feelings in an attempt to delegitimise and demonise Israel and are simply, as Stalin called them, "useful idiots" used by Islamofascists to promote their agenda.
Of course it is fair and reasonable to feel considerable sympathy for innocent Palestinians caught up in deprivation. Note, however, that the Arab and Muslim nations have done little for their Palestinian "brothers", knowing how extremist many are. They could easily have used some of their vast oil wealth to lift them out of poverty and provide services and infra-structure. Note how every town and village is labelled a "refugee camp".
It is also true that many of the most able Palestinians have left the territories to carve out new lives for themselves in their own diaspora.
The Israeli population is divided with the right just out-numbering the left. It swings both ways, as it does in most Western democracies.
The underlying problem is lack of trust of the other side and until the Palestinians as a whole accept the existence of Israel, that mistrust will continue. It needs great statesmen on both sides. Israel had that in Barak at Camp David, but Arafat was too rooted in terrorism and lacked the peace making vision.
I could go on and on with this, but enough for now.
I notice how the likes of the unholy trinity of fred, fahel and haymaker stay silent on the other great tragedies and sufferings of the world eg the current slaughter of Uzbeks, Darfur and many other situations.
However, whenever Isreal is involved then their view is not only one sided but smacks of the language of age-old anti-semitism born of some Christian teachings, scapegoating and centuries of cultural sterotyping, eg Shakespeare.
Why do they concentrate their hatred and vilification on a nation of Jews.......draw your own conclusions.

Yes. That is a common opinion. I don't think it goes far enough by a long way. Israel exists on Palestinian land. They are the agressor and yet they expect to call the tune. Having a separate Palestinian state is not enough. Israel would have to give up a lot of their land (all of it as far as Hamas is concerned). the Palestinians don't recognise Israel as their land was given away by third parties to Israel. the Palestinian Authority (which in fact has no authority) may well accept a separate state agreement, but it will not stop Hamas and their supporters. You cannot crush Hamas without another Hamas springing up.

There was a time years ago when Israel could have made peace with the Palestinians. That time has now passed. Israel's government is exactly the sort of government that is going to make things worse. Syrian's President al-Assad has said Israel's raid on the Gaza aid flotilla has increased the chances of war in the Middle East. He said Syria was working to prevent a regional war. But he added that there was no chance of a peace deal with the current Israeli administration, which he called a "pyromaniac government".

In The Land of the B

I could post on the troubles in Darfur, Tibet, Korea, China, parts of Russia and plety of other places. This thread is about Israel. On another thread about Darfur, I might well post.

And once again you raise the spectre of the Jews. It is the same tactic designed to deflect attention away from attrocities committed by Israel. It works less each time it is used. The holocaust was a terrible thing, but I didn't cause it and the Arabs didn't cause it. I think that increasingly people are bored with it being brought up. That is a pity as people should not forget. If it is constantly brought up by supporters of Israel then its impact and significancy will be devalued.

God forbid that Hamas should ever get its hands on one of those Nuclear devices that can be bought from Eastern Europe for about $2million. When you take a nations land and their dignity, then why not have the perfect suicide bomber go to Tel Aviv.
But then hamas cant get their hands on $2million!

It's amazing how people deliberately like to misrepresent factual statements.
"Ever heard of the Holocaust? Do you think Israeli policy isn't influenced by the genocide and a determination it will never happen again?"
When I wrote that I was obviously implying that the Holocaust still played a part in the psyche of Israel and affected its mistrust of others and its determination to defend itself and not rely on others, no matter what.
And yet that was twisted to imply that I meant the Holocaust was an "excuse" for other things.
But hey, that's what anti-semites do. It's also what any group of people do when they want to demonise another group. Twist, distort, lie etc.
My opinion about the likes of the unholy trinity remains unchanged.
They have an agenda of hatred which they try to wrap in a cloak of legitimacy and reason - just like the nazis

One other thing, Israel is totally crap at marketing and PR. That's a major problem as the public opinion arena is left almost entirely to Hamas, Hizbollah and their useful idiots in the West.

Greg, don't you think it's time you found a life outside of this BB and stopped your incessant posting? You've bored the arse of me now and quite frankly you've proven om many occasions you're just a self-opinated wind bag with no real understanding of any issue or experience in the real world. You and Fred make a fine pair, you should get married, I'm sure you'd both live happily ever after.

BTW, your comment re Trident and NATO is, as usual, err, wrong, but I can't be bothered to explain why.

patshere
Firstly, Hamas could easily get $2m and secondly I doubt that there any nuclear bombs to be had for $2m.

In The Land of the B
I think it is you who is twisting people's comments. This statement is really bizzare "They have an agenda of hatred which they try to wrap in a cloak of legitimacy and reason - just like the nazis". The holocaust only has any influence on the Israelis. And the Palestinians certainly don't care about that influence. They see it all as a European thing and nothing to do with them. There is no reason for them to make any allowances for Israeli feeling about the holocaust. The attitude of the Palestinians is if you don't like all the problems of living in Israel then don't live there.

ptholden
If you don't like my posts then don't read them. It is very simple. I am not a supporter of Fred at all. I disagree with most of what Fred posts, but I am anti-Israel.

My comment regarding Trident is correct as Fred asked me if I would keep it and my answer was No. I said that we did not need it because of Nato. That is true except that we have an agreement with the US and Nato 'provide' Trident capability. If we want to get rid of Trident then there would have to be a change to that agreement. It was easier to reply to Fred that we didn't need it because of Nato, but you just want to be pedantic. Getting rid of Trident implies changing the other things that go with it. you really do get quite boring.

patshere.
One nuclear device, anywhere in that area,
would make all the area from Egypt to Lebanon,
and beyond, uninhabitable for many years.
No winners, many losers.
The Russians know.

Might be considered beneficial by a certain Country.
They might have the means soon and could probably
organise the crazies to do it.

Mind you they would wipe out a Muslim holy shrine.
But hey,there used to be one in the middle of what is
now Ghaddafi's parade square in Tripoli.It fell over due
to an unexplained explosion one night.

peter - it's best to read virtually none of the assorted diatribes, but one or two of the briefer post merit response, and it can be entertaining just to toss the odd pebble into the pond

It is interesting to me that the countries which have Nuclear weapons are sane and the countries which wish to have the weapons are crazy.

I seems a little like the patients in the Asylum saying the doctors are mad.

Anybody know what is the predominant direction of the air currents in the Middle East?

tyketto

'One nuclear device, anywhere in that area,
would make all the area from Egypt to Lebanon,
and beyond, uninhabitable for many years.
No winners, many losers.'

When you have 'nothing' to lose then why not defy your devil[Israel].

"Greg, don't you think it's time you found a life outside of this BB and stopped your incessant posting? You've bored the arse of me now and quite frankly you've proven om many occasions you're just a self-opinated wind bag with no real understanding of any issue or experience in the real world. You and Fred make a fine pair, you should get married, I'm sure you'd both live happily ever after."

Well said !

I cannot understand why the Palestines allow Hamas to provide Israel with the excuse to kill and blockade. If you remove Israels so called 'reasons' to blockade gaza{Hamas missiles} then you leave Israel without any justification to continue their illegal acts.
It seem that Hamas have alternative motives other than the welfare and peaceful existence of the Palestine people.

because the general populace on both sides is manipulated by politicos often from outside .... you also naively believe that the gov't of israel and leaders of hamas and hezbollah care two hoots about the plight of the innocent gaza residents