Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

fred the tory tune should be SEND IN THE CLOWNS it fits perfect

in other words fred, you have no political/union leader whom you would think was a great example to mankind, or even his country .... do i see the word pragmatism suddenly making an entrance? ....... now there's a surprise

perhaps you think stalin and mao were merely pragmatists too

Russia says it was the REBELS or terrorists what ever you want to call them
that used gas .

fred I bet you served your country un like some that did not they ran away

First, Moscow maintains there is no proof that President Bashar al-Assad was behind the suspected chemical weapons attack in eastern Damascus.

If anything, argue the Russians, evidence points to the rebels carrying it out in order to scupper peace talks and to put pressure on the Syrian government.

Cynic,

Probably, unlike you, I don't create or worship false images of leaders.

All leaders have holes in their characters, eg. Martin Luther King, Mandela, Bill Clinton, Obama, etc. but at least they seem to have a certain core morality which they exposed and appeals to many, also they tried to fulfil the "ideals" they proposed.

To many, the core values of Camoron and his present henchmen seem to be wanting, other than maintain power, "influence" and their own "personal wealth and advantages".

Each unto their own Gods.

Update: Labour lead at 3

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 28th August - Con 34%, Lab 37%, LD 11%, UKIP 12%

Gees I'm bored! pretty obvious reduced to reading this shite.

Tanker.

Not in the way you probably mean.

Since being a student in the 1950s and 1960s and wandering around a small part of Europe have always thought of myself as a European and Internationalist, although remaining a Welshman on rugby international days.

I married a slave who turned out to be a Slav and had small exposure to communist regimes through her family and Hungarian and Polish friends as students.

This left "awareness" of"totalitarian" regimes and the abuses of "authority" by them and some so called "democratic" governments which distort public opinion in order to keep them in position.

--------------

I am not sure what the action should be in Syria, but do detest the hypocrisy which is being spouted by Cameron.

There is a responsibility to interfering militarily in Syria and that includes removal of Assad and his cronies and them protection of the people from the abuse by various extreme parties.

That will be expensive in cash and lives.

where's the hypocrisy?
at least you're honest in one part .... "I am not sure what the action should be in Syria" ..... in common with myself and i suspect many others

its simple let them sort it out its not our problem protecting the uk people is
when you have the two biggest powers like china and Russia on Syria side leave well alone

fred at least you are honest and reading your posts not stupid

commons live Cameron sniggering on a issue as serious as war

Cynic,

Listen to Camorone's speech.

That is the hypocrisy.

The aim is regime change.

(There maybe a hope that stock of chemical weapons will be reduced, but USA,, Russia, China, Britain still have their supplies, as many other countries also have.)

I would like to see the departure of ASSAD as much as I wished the removal of his father.

But an honest discussion of how to do so would be more honest and appropriate.

hmm .... but it seems to me that you want a regime change too!!

of course, one is then reminded of the fable of the frog king, with which i am sure you are well acquainted, for there is an inevitable and considerable danger that the new boys will be at least as bad if not worse than the old ..... have a look at which nasties are allied to "the rebels"

Lord Goldsmith was on Sky News this morning talking about the legal issues involved. From what he said, it is clear that any action taken by the USA & Britain must be done on the basis that it is done to avert another humanitarian disaster and not to facilitate a regime change.

Spot the difference other than in the wording used for justification

Having just watched SKY news It looks like Camoron could lose the vote tonight.


Looks like its ALL ON the Lib Dems and a lot are coming out saying they will vote against the government.

Should be very intereting tonight.

If Camoron loses this vote hes had it. All out war with the lib dems up to the election.

Cynic.

(Regime change and rebel nasties)

That is what I fear maybe the outcome.

I watched the development of this "civil war" and part of me hoped that there would have been more support for the rebels and military intervention before Assad had time to reorganise and distribute his "defences".

Also, attempts to strangle him financially would have been useful, but Russia's and China's would have thwarted this. The latter may have more interests in the M.E. than is apparent, especially long term. (Maybe it is misplaying its cards.)


I thought it might have blunted Assad preparedness to hang on to power at any cost.

I understand "some" of the problems of intervention and wondered what the costs would have been in lives and cash and who foot the bills.

Some of which has been due for mishandling and naivety of ME politics by the West.
(Treating, them as children, rather than delinquents.)

This is one reason I think there should be a revision of the UN or at least a movement to change is the ability to veto proposals of certain members including Britain and giving it a form of policing authority, as well as the responsibility it presently has.

fred - just to pick up on bits of your post .....
military intervention - by whom and on what grounds?
Russia and China - lots and lots of ulterior motive and zero other!
delinquents - and what do you do with delinquents? you give them a "spanking" ..... and the consequences of doing so internationally?
should be a revision of the UN - i don't disagree but as i wrtote yesterday, that is just a pipedream of a pipedream

===================

does it matter if cameron loses tonight's vote?
not really, but for sure i would like to have seen a free vote, which clearly this is not

would a "no vote" in the commons send out any serious message to assad?
no, but then nor would a "yes vote"

will there be some sort of strike against syria?
must be odds-on though not quite a racing certainty

will it make any difference?
pretty doubtful as it is likely to be little more than symbolic, notwithstanding that it will be targetted specifically

will russia or china do anything?
no; the pair of them will just rattle their sabres a bit for domestic consumption