germany 2006 begins in a few weeks. time to get a thread going for anyone's thoughts and opinions.

all the latest world cup news




ah ......the beautiful game!! joga bonita!!

tables and results

Well, if England survive the penalty shootout, the good news is that they will be without Looney in the Semis, what a wan***r!

So................is Andy Murray going to win Wimbledon?

Andy Murray was fantastic Kim ,he seemed a different player from the last match ,i didn't think he could beat Roddick but he out played him in every department ,if he plays like that he can go a lot further ,however Federer will be too good ,hope i'm wrong but i don't think so.
As for England my opinion is fairly worthless (i don't know enough about football) ,but Rooney was a plonker he stamped on the guy in front of the ref ,what did he expect??. It has looked to me though that they had one problem after another ,Owen gone ,Beckham off in this game and Rooney red carded ,you can't win like that.
This should now be the Wimbledon thread .

Understand Ronaldo is trying to sign for Barca, according to last week's papers. Following today's game, I think it might be a good idea, cos the first thing Rooney will do if Ronaldo goes back to Old Trafford is deck him.

Haven't seen the replays yet, but I was baffled to see Rooney get sent off, from my viewpoint he didn't appear to stamp on anyone deliberately?? As usual, had the ref blown for the fouls on Rooney prior to the rumpus the sending off would never have happened. In the final analysis Sven picked negative teams throughout and we didn't really deserve to go any further, although I wouldn't have complained much if we were rubbish throughout and won!!

Really impressed by France tonight, Zidane was superb.

Unfortunately my abiding memory of this World Cup is the constant cheating and conning of referees, players collapsing holding their hands to their faces / heads, when the replays confirm that no contact has been made. We also have the double bluff, where a defender commits a foul in the penalty area, only for goalie and defenders to attack the player for diving (see Argentina v Germany - last five minutes). Guess that's a product off all the diving gits in the first place.

The only way all this play acting will ever be stamped out is for the governing body, be it FIFA or EUFA, to use video evidence after the game to ban the cheating twats until they have stamped it out. France and Brazil seemed to get on with it tonight and it was all the much more enjoyable without the cheating.

It's getting to the point where I just can't be arsed to watch anymore.

pth

i'm not going to say anything. it's a horrible way to go out.

the other semi-final is

france



versus portugal

Well done bos ,i quite like France,,, keep em coming

One question being asked is should Wayne Rooney have been sent off at all?

Was the referee too harsh in giving him a red card?

Click HEREto watch the video of his tackle and subsequent reaction and judge for yourself.

Watch out for the knowing "We've got it done" wink from Ronaldo at the end of the video.

Cristiano Ronaldo's Manchester United career is now finished. He is a cheat. I don't think the fans will have him back easily, if at all.

england are out because they weren't good enough. it really is as simple as that. it doesn't matter what the formation or system was. not enough players performed. gerrard, lampard, beckham , rooney, did not do enough to warrant their stellar status. ferdinand, hargreaves and crouch can hold their heads high knowing they gave everything they could and more. as i said, it is a horrible way to go out, but if you can't score from 12 yards then you shouldn't be in the semi finals.
as for ronaldo, don't forget that they are not team mates. ronaldo plays for portugal , not england, and don't kid yourselves that if ronaldo had done the stamping , neville , ferdinand and rooney wouldn't have been the first in the queue to argue with the ref.
and as for alan shearer and his , "we english are just too honest " bollocks, well, the less said , the better!!!

Agree bosley except that some of the players didn't perform (Gerrard) for example because of the tactics.

On the bright side ... at least the penalty takers were on target this year.

... saying that , I reckon I could manage 1 out of 4 against any goalkeeper in the world .... with my eyes shut.

I undertsand that Rooney was sent off for pushing Ronaldo rather than any stamping that may have been deliberate or not; and having watched Doc Procs posted clip I certainly am not sure. So if that was the case, why on earth was it a sending off offence? Mind you, England played better with 10 men, so it probably helped the overall performance.

I do have some empathy with Shearer's comments, it is hard to think of any England games during the WC where players have cheated to either win a free kick or get another professional sent off. Rooney had every right to go down under those challenges leading to his sending off, but like most British players he tried to stay on his feet to win the ball. There is no doubt in my mind that most continental players would have collapsed, rolled over 10 times and screamed in mortal agony, winning both the free kick and probably ensuring a yellow card was issued to the offending player.

Cheating is rife in football (take Robbie Savage as a glowing example - mind you, he is Welsh). Thiery Henry is rightly being slaughtered for his antics against Spain and Mancini rolled around yesterday clutching his face when video replays proved that no contact had been made.

Players are told that they must stay on their feet in the penalty area, because an attacking player will make sure that he falls over some part of that player by leaving his own leg behind, when it would be just as easy to stay on his feet (Italy penalty against Australia, a case in point).

Glad that is all off my chest, football really does have significant problems and with the amount of money circulating in the game, it aint gonna get any better.

pth

i really don't know how anyone can empathise with shearer. shearer is a footballer who has tried to not just influence the ref , but, to actually referee every game in which he has played. also, let's not forget that he himself has been booked a few times for diving in the area. the main reason why this myth that english footballers behave differently to continentals is the media. when mr gerrad took a dive in the friendly against hungary , not a single pundit or newspaper columnist said " gerrard dived". not one !!! some said there was minimal or no contact, that the ref was right not to award a penalty, etc, but no one used the word "dive" !! this is just one case. it is a "thing" with me. i can give you many more examples but i think you get my point. all footballers have pushed the rules to the limit and beyond since the game became professional and money got involved. it's the nature of competitive people. all footballers are "cheats".
pete, please tell me what else someone is supposed to do when they are off balance due to a foul, running at full pelt and suddenly some dickhead decides to lie down infront of you.? matterazzi did exactly the same thing earlier in the game and got red carded yet, not a single person or pundit has said the aussie took a dive !! funny that , innit!!

dil, i agree that good tactics help, but, it still doesn't excuse bad performances from so called world-class players. the other point that needs a mention is , just how fit were the english players? the only one who still looked full of running in extra time was owen hargreaves. the argentinians, (twice), mexicans and germans all looked fit when they played extra time.
speaking of hargreaves, i'm very pleased he has had a good tournament. i've been banging on about ferguson getting him at united for a 4 years now. definately the man to replace keane and also , a future england/united captain, imo.

Bos

You are totally correct re Gerrard, he dived, or did he take avoiding action from a dreadful two footed tackle which if had made contact may have caused serious injury. Yes it looked like a dive and some of the media did berate him for it and rightly so.

Matterazzi's tackle was a cynical attempt to take out a player from advancing on goal, no attempt to take the ball, stop the player and in my view was worthy of a striaght red based on the cynical aspect alone. I would hold the same view were it an English player. As regards the penalty incident, the Aussie slid in to where he thought the ball was going to go, misjudging by about a yard and the attacker fell over his body, I don't think the Italian had to go down (can't remember his name) but saw his opportunity and took it. You see these incidents all the time, leave a leg behind and you have a good chance of getting a decision. Both Argentina and England (Owen) secured penalties in this manner during the 98 WC when Beckham was sent off, for instance.

I guess I am making two points:

1. I do believe that British players are less likely to con decisions than their continental brothers, (try watching La Liga - it's a joke).

2. I am heartily sick of teams gaining an advantage by basically cheating.

I am not picking on Italy or Portugal in particular, the whole thing is endemic in the game and although Ian Wright was slated for his comments re the Gerrard incident, why not? If it's the only way to gain parity? Reminds me of the athletics drug cheats in the 70s/80s/90s (and perhaps even now) the only way you can win is by cheating.

Quite frankly it makes me sick.

pth

Thanks for the definition Bosley, its in The Sopranos, thought it meant something like that but was just checking.
England what jokers. The FA are a disgrace, we ve lost the world cup and perhaps more importantly the future by fuc**ng up everything with Phil Scolari.
We have the best team in the world yet our managers will undoubtedly be the death of us.
I'm not too bothered with Wayne, he is a superb talent and still young and as an MCFC Fan I look forward to seeing either Rooney or Ronaldo make way from MUFC, seeing that greasy rat run up to the ref to get Roon sent off, what a tw*t.
France are looking special.

Hope you don't mind me joining in guys- not about the state of football but about my take on England/Beckham et al

First it has to be hats off to Beckham. I believe genuinely that he has led the team well and has been a great ambassador for England. He has been a popular and respected role model for many thousands of kids and we should pay tribute to him for that. He got the OBE in 2003 and its not hard to see why. Good luck to him- I expect somewhere along the line the FA or government will find something for him to do to continue his ambassadorial role for the country. A World Cup on the shelf might well have brought a knighthood- alas not now!

So far as the World Cup is concerned I firmly believe that although most of our players did not play to their usual high standards this was largely down to the selection in the first place in taking along a non playing forward, and then playing 4-5-1 with Rooney up front. Totally stupid. If anyone is to blame it is Eriksson, nobody else, though I have serious doubts about the future given that McClaren was his sidekick and presumably part of the decision taking process.

The positives were Crouch, Lennon and the shining light of Owen Hargreaves.I suppose we Uk based fans never get to see him other than for England so has not really felt like one of us. What a player in that holding role- fantastic. Well done the manager on that gem. The failures for me were Lampard and, less so, Gerrard and Cole. It might have been because of the 4-5-1 but anyway they were less than adequate.

coeliac1

Agree with many of your points, I have said my piece as regards the state of fottball and I don't propose to keep harping on, guess Bos and I will have to agree to disagree to a certain extent.

Personally I put England's failure to suceed down to Sven. We do have quality players, but rather than pick a balanced team he tried to pick a formation to suit the players at his disposal. A manager with guts would certainly have dropped Lampard who has had a dire competition and probably Beckham as well. Why he took Wallcott rather than Defoe or Bent is inexplicable.

I do fear for the future, McLaren as Sven's sidekick will perhaps have absorbed some of his tactics, I hope not the negative ones (although I cannot remember many postive Sven tactics). Teams should be picked on form, not on reputation, Lennon and Carrick should both have remained in the team. England looked so much better with Lennon causing problems on the wing. I have to admit I have never been a Hargreaves fan, but he was truly outstanding against Portugal, I am a convert.

pth

pete, i don't think we have to agree to disagree as i think we are both in agreement on most things.

"2. I am heartily sick of teams gaining an advantage by basically cheating."

"all footballers are "cheats". "

where we disagree is that you still believe english players are good as gold and have to resort to cheating to gain parity. my point is that all footballers cheat, always have done and always will. maybe some countries/clubs put more time and effort into it, but, essentially, they all cheat. they all commit fouls, they all claim the throw/corner/goalkick, they all fall over whenever there is contact, they all hold/grab, etc. the corinthian spirit died as soon as money got involved. this is why fifa issue directive after directive, to counter the way players push the boundaries until it becomes unacceptable. i found martin jol's piece in today's times appalling considering the way the dutch players behaved against portugal. the bottom line is that it is up to the players to change things. but we both know they wont.

Morning Lee
No, I don't believe for one moment that English (or British) players are good as gold, but I do believe, rightly or wrongly, that it is largely an imported disease into our game. Whatever I believe is immaterial really, FIFA/EUFA will never take the drastic steps required to eradicate the cheats, there is too much money involved.