Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Fred
as expected u do not answer the question, and revert to old chestnut about un resolutions, which we have over the years recognised that they have no importance to those of many nations who wish to ignore them, not just Israel.
I want to know how You would deal with the situation that Israel is in. If Hamas has no intention of recognising Israel, how can Israel recognise and negotiate with Hamas?.

No nation will ever stand idly by and allow an illegal organisation to daily fire rockets at it's population. Hamas are indiscriminate in their targetting and care little for civilian casualties on the Israeli side of the border.

Whilst it may be that Israel's response is heavy handed, the targets they are after were sited by Hamas in densely populated areas, which means they are either ridiculously callous or naive to the absurd degree if they thought that the Israelis would not go after the firing platforms irrespective of location.

Hamas could stop firing the rockets, but they seem hellbent on escalating the conflict, presumably in the hope that others will be drawn in, are they acting as puppets for Iran?

Stable, by sitting at a table and talking with (not to) the leaders of Hamas. Both sides of the table compromising for the benefit of the people bototh groups they are supposed to represent.

This is preferable to sticking to the bigoted ideology, which is prevalent at the moment. Also recognising "bullying tactics" used by Israel and America are not sustainable. This is the recognised opinion of the majority of the world opinion. Hence the general world outcry.

It would also need aid to enable the Palestinians to have an economically viable, independant state. This would have to be supervised by the UN.

That would mean stopping the abuse of the UN by members of the Security Council by its members.

There has to be reform of the UN. to give it authority,

Wildrover, Let us have a clean fight. Palestinians can use swords while Israel can use guns.

I think part of what Hamas is up to, is bringing attention to the world to it broken economy, due to strangulation by Israel and also bringing attention to the mandates which Israel continually ignores.

It is difficult to condone the Palestinian rockets, but it is easy to understand why the resort to them.

Iran, What a shame America couldn't impose a "democratic" government there.

"It is difficult to condone the Palestinian rockets, but it is easy to understand why the resort to them."

Fred - I dont think you've yet made a single convincing argument - and this one was probably the worst of them all.

ps - did you wish to declare an interest?

Fred you have lost the plot (again). One moment you criticise the US for 'bullying tactics' the next you want them to impose a democratic govt in Iran (or did I miss the sarcasm?).

The reason Israel will not negotiate with Hamas is well know to most, but seemingly not to you?

Gausie, The initial government of Israel was made up of "terrorists". Eventually a large number of countries, recognised and dealt with. I suggest you engage a little grey matter on ;-

"It is difficult to condone the Palestinian rockets, but it is easy to understand why the resort to them."

I am sure if you try harder you will understand that comment. If not I feel sorry for you.

Yes, I have an interest. I am saddened by the wanton destruction of the infrastructure and killing of one population or race by another.

I think the Jews with their past history of Germany in the late 1930s and WW1 and previous episodes in Russia, would have learnt something other than to mimmick their oppressors.

Many Jews disagree with the present Israeli actions.


But mind you Gausie, there might be some economic benefit for those financing or benefiting from perpetuation of the Middle East problems.


PH, Apologies, I keep on forgetting your obvious limitations.

Oh dear. Let's try one more time, with a paraphrase:

"It is difficult to condone the Israeli bombs, but it is easy to understand why they resort to them."

Again, Fred, just how many terrorist rockets would you allow to be fired at our population before you decided you'd better try to stop it?

Fred - its the line: 'easy to understand why they resort to them' that I struggle with.

Was it a typo? Did you mean to say 'impossible' where you wrote 'easy'. Or do you really have empathy for that statement? Do you honestly mean that in the same circumstances you personally would arm yourself with high explosive rockets and fire them indiscriminately into Israeli towns and villages?

Fred, your analogy of a boy with a catapult and Hamas' indiscriminate use of rockets to terrorsie the Israeli population is quite frankly pathetic. I can only assume you would be happy for a terrorist organisation to drop a few bombs on your house or that of friends and family because by their own actions have become oppressed?

Hamas is committed to the destruction of Israel (as are other countries and organisations). It's a little difficult to enter into any sort of dialogues until that intent is rescinded. I suggest you read the article posted by Exec (and others) to gain some sort of perspective. Despite my limitations, it is easy for me to perceive that as usual, you are portraying yourself as somewhat restricted in your thought process. Those chips must be getting very heavy ;)

Gausie, with the same history as the Palestinians, it is quite likely in my youth that I would have resorted to the same actions to draw attention to the obvious abuses by various Israeli governments.

Look at some of the Israeli terrorist in the 1940 especially Ben-Gurion's actions in the period up to 1948.

If I was in the same time warp, as some in Israel seem to be, with an eye for an eye ideology, I would use as many rockets as it takes to draw world attention to the ceaseless abuses of UN mandates.

oh dear. I thought as much.

So you do, in fact, condone the rocket attacks.

If you were my neighbour and used this sort of physically violent armed response every time I had a loud party, or a guest of mine parked across your front drive then I'm afraid you wouldnt last 5 minutes. Physically attack me or my kids with lethal weapons then I'll do my best to restrain you. And if I couldn't restrain you and you continued to be a lethal threat then I'd quite happily rip your throat out - and no court in the land would blame for doing so.

OK Fred I think they have had the worlds attention for at least the last week on a grand scale ... so why are they still firing the rockets if thats all they were after ?

Lost any sympathy I may have had for them.

Gausie, You have espoused your values and limitations. It seems you have similar moral stances as the present Israeli and Hamas leaders are demonstrating.

By the way, you challenge me earlier with do you wish to declare an interest.. I have replaced did by do, but the question is still pertinent.

Fred

Your comments have made my mind up for me - I have decided to attend the rally this evening in support of Israel's right to defend itself against rocket attacks.



Date: 07 January 2009
Time: 19:45 - 21:30
Location: Israeli embassy, Kensington - next door the Royal garden hotel
Street: Palace Green, W8 4QB
Town/City: London, United Kingdom

Show your support for Israel's right to defend and protect itself from terrorists such as HAMAS. All over the world we see the media covering the Palestinians protesting against Israel's so called attacks and targeting of innocent civilians.

To all people who are attending, security and police will be present. We all have a right to protest in this country and this is to show support for Israel and its right to defend itself against world recognized terrorists.

Please ignore all anti-Israel comments and posts as these will be deleted as soon as possible. Thank you.

We have been asked by the Police and security services to advise anyone attending this event, who will be using the Tube, should arrive via Gloucester Road Tube Station and walk up through Gloucester Road/Palace Gate to Kensington Road.

( all people attending are welcome to bring there own banners, Israeli flag's & Union Jack flag's, as long as they are not offensive etc.. )

Wave a Welsh flag for me mate , they got my support too.

Dil - I only have one, and it's burnt.

Ch4 Media is very one sided in thier reporting anyone would think HAMAS were just blowing bubbles .

UK schools use to teach history .I dare not say what I'm thinking

Fred's views amaze me.

In his opinion:-

1. The use of lethal force to attract world attention is OK - He'd have done the same.
2. The use of lethal force to defend against lethal force is unacceptable to him.

Can anyone make sense of this?

G