Not sure if this thread will catch on, because no-one here seems to have much to say about individual british banks, but thought i would add this header to see if we could discuss dividend yields, exposure to sup-prime, good ones, bad ones, take-over targets, when the crisis will end? do you think they have learnt their lesson? I, for one, as a property developer have seen first hand how much stricter they have become with lending habits, struggling to get decent rates for re-mortgaging, basically they appear scared to lend to anyone.

Nope dont think so.

Whos going to pick up the tab if they win there court cases..... yep the tax payer as per usual.

Most investers would have opened short positions if they thought they could make money, that's the name of the game to make money. A lot that is being said about it is sourer grapes. But the big players have been bending or breaking the rules/law.

Random thoughts;

The goose that lays the golden egg has been killed off.

The issue for me isn't shorting per se, it is the huge amount of leverage available to those who wish to short, and (I am sure I had this conversation with Cynic sometime ago) the increased availability of short positions through spread betting and cfd's etc.

Yep, the name of the game is to make money, but the tool for doing so, (the financial markets) were created and devised for the benefit of the whole economy and the corporations wishing to grow. They were never devised to make instant profits for the few.

The hedge funds will fail in their legal argument. The FSA has statutory obligation to protect and promote financial markets and make sure they are orderly. They have no obligation to protect the interests of market counterparty users of the markets, only retail purchasors.

The same leverage is available to those wishing to go long too hewittalan so it works both ways.

Indeed it does, Dil, but the difference is that leveraging an investment brings great benefit to a company, as its value rises exponentially, but leveraged shorting damages it beyond that which is true.
In truth, the chaos, meltdown and posiible slump all come down to a desire by everyone to live or generate profit, beyond their own means.
There are those who lambast banks for lending too high multiples, or to too risky propositions yet are happy enough to trade on margins etc.
One and the same, really.
When (if) this is all over, we may see a bull run of ridiculous proportions, on stocks and/or property, and this will be down to leveraging and will see many more get their fingers burned. Perhaps controlling the leveraging is as important as controlling the shorting.

Wouldnt mind but less than 3% of HBOS market cap was being shorted when the ban came into place. Not only that but banks have been shorting the ass off of each other over the last few months. How ironic.

There becoming a protected specis on incentive pay and selling to gullible types just to line there own pockets.

OK for Barclays traders and other bank traders to short eg, housing stocks but not vise versa. This ban will backfire badly.

Wheres the regulation from within?????????, hardly a jot mentioned from the banks over the last week or so.

Maybe the can get no win no fee deal from their legal teams

Ive seen it all now.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/investing-and-markets/article.html?in_article_id=452405&in_page_id=3

Beggars belief.

Goldfinger, d'you know what - it no longer surprises me when I read things like that! Sign of the times eh?!

A day of rest

Kim, certainly is.

Just look how the DOW closed tonight.

I am of the belief we will have a sell-off of banks mid October before things can improve.

I'm of the belief that we need 2 or 3 Max. Superbanks to get things back to normality - so come on guys snap up the piddly little players and get your fingers out !! Dont like these markets like this.

Hot News.

I cannot name the institutions involved, unfortunately, but..........

A particular investment vehicle had bought a lot of sub prime mortgages with the intention of keeping some, but selling the bulk on in smaller lots. They have been unable to do this.
Their answer has been to start mailing their client bank offering to reduce the mortgage debt by 15% and waive all exit fees and redemption penalties if they move their mortgage to another lender in the next couple of months.

This sounds a little desperate, but in truth they would sell their book at a discount anyway, so it might actually be a stroke of genius.

Looks like tomorrow could be another bad day for financials, but you can never tell in these markets. With bank shares seeing such violent movements, I'm trying to find some good trading ranges, which isn't easy. I had a RBS range of 180p to 240p planned , but last Thursday I managed a buy at 153p, so will wait for another opportunity.

Just looked at Bradford and Bingley after hearing reports that a buyer is being actively looked for, the sp was down to below 24p today which = 408m market cap. The question is at what price would BB. be worth taking a small position with, in the hope of a white knight riding to it's rescue on a fine Arab charger.

The DOW futures reversed yesterdays fall of 160 point's, they liked the news that Warren Buffett to take a 10% stake in Goldman Sachs for $10Billion, after they changed status to a holding bank.

I remember Warren Buffett saying that he doesn't invest in companies he thinks are too complicated to understand, meaning Banks. The last time he invested in a bank was in 1987 (Saloman Bros) so something has changed his mind.

This I believe is a significant move for financials in America.

I think you will find that he has a significant stake in Wells Fargo which he has had for many years.

Wells Fargo are the American equivalent to lloy before last weeks deal with hbos, so I can see what attracted him to them.

I'm in two minds with this takeover, on one hand I think it will be good long term for lloy, but on the other hand it will cause alot of short term uncertainty. And I was more than happy with lloy before, good dividend, safe boring company, just like a bank should be.

Yes I expect most of the banks wished they had been boring over the past few years. Alot of this has to be taken on trust but, I would think that longer term the market will look on the HBOS deal favourably . However, I think they may rebase the dividend. The Buffet move in the states with Goldman Sachs is a good indication of longer term value. I bet there will be a good shake up there though.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=aBtJbUvMKdXM


An interesting read