Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/13/hospital-unable-admit-patients-casualty

Many thanks.

Cynic,

But if you haven't recognised your "pals" Dave and crew have been in charge for 3 years while the patient is dying.

We were over half way through the WW2 in that period.

Cameron and HUNT are in charge after the waste of money and chaos caused by Andrew Lansley's brilliant period of "reforms".

The reason for palm off responsibility from Central government is because they are too incompetent to manage anything other than their own purses.

----------------

What I do find typical of the "nasty party's" regime, is their preparedness to increase the penalties of "scroungers", or "defrauders" of "Wealth Care" system to up to 20 years, when Lansley has wasted millions and ADS has wasted another £40 millions on his reorganisation without losing his job. At the same time some of his fellow MPs have attempted to defraud the tax payers with "personal expenses" and just had their fingers gently "tapped" and told to be smarter next time.

=======

fred - NHS has been a financial mess for an awful lot longer than just 3 years, which is why i posed my question - and which of course you (and everyone else) cannot answer

the real facts to be faced are that, unless we want to accept huge hikes in tax (patently we do not), then the present set-up just cannot be afforded ......

then, whether or not any government has any clue how to run a proper business that is not just swamped with unproductive management and red tape that gorge on money, is another matter entirely

Cynic,

Which groups or parts of the NHS do you think can't be afforded?

If we indentify them, then we would be able increase their efficieincy, or expedite their departure.


"then, whether or not any government has any clue how to run a proper business that is not just swamped with unproductive management and red tape that gorge on money "


The present government obviously doesn't have a clue how to manage its own affaires, leave alone the countries, they are a blustering PR job lot and not fit for purpose. (Other than their own.)

------------------------------

I wish this market would settle down.

fred - the markets are like you - full of bluster :-)

while i don't think this lot has done anything "useful" with NHS (or education), nor most assuredly did their predecessors, so that's something of a stupid comment of yours - sort of thing i'ld fully expect from findus+chips

in my opinion, and as already outlined, i think that NHS is ludicrously top-heavy with management and its clip-boards and general red tape ...... however, removing a meaningful amount of that dross - and of course trying to replace it with something that is both work and cost efficient and effective is, i fear, way beyond the abilities of ANY government, not least because of the barrage of abuse that would be encountered from all sorts of interested parties.

in conclusion, i'm afraid this country has a veritable medusa of an unaffordable system - or any other of the herculean metaphors you would like to apply

so for me, i'll just throw my hands up in the air and wait to die!

Cynic
It is not worth debating the NHS with Fred. The conservatives are just as keen on the NHS as any other party. I have never heard Conservatives wanting to scrap it. Their intention is to make it more efficient and being such a money soak.

Update: Labour lead at 3
by YouGov in Politics
Tue September 17, 6 a.m. BST

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 16th September - Con 34%, Lab 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 12%;

hays - i'm afraid you're as meaninglessly partisan as findus+chips ...... as for fred, he is certainly left-tilted (even if he won't put action with words - i.e. vote) and intentionally contentious, but once he's taken his medication, he can actually be quite sensible on occasion

by the way, you don't begin to answer the question either!

A report highlighting deteriorating consumer saving power claims £10,000 invested five years ago in the average savings account would only be worth £8,844 today.


well what a surprise!
was this a free bit of research or did some moron pay for something that was blindingly obvious to all except, seemingly, the moron who commissioned it

Cynic,


"while i don't think this lot has done anything "useful" with NHS (or education), nor most assuredly did their predecessors,"


All governments make "mistakes", some deliberate and some not so.

As far as the NHS and Education is concerned the things that I think the country can thank the Labour government for, was the building of some decent new hospitals and school buildings and the refurbishment of many. They were in appalling states during and after the "Thatcher years". The PFI system introduced by "maggie" and was used which I think a stupid form of financing, but there was short term "spivs" in that period of government, similar to the present lot .

=====

If you reflect on infrastructure "development" or "repair" , a large amount of it built in the "Victorian" period and "neglected" sold off by the tory period to the "private sector" one can understand some of our problems now.

Perhaps, it is due to your form of "democracy" and having to face before or, at 5 year elections intervals and not prepared to "plan for the long term problems, or development".

Would a partial change of political "management" by MPs be better.

Successful management of large companies tend to evolve over a time periods rather than by revolution. (Members come and go with occasional departure of CEOs etc.)

ah well fred, i suppose i shouldn't have expected other than "abuse" from you ...... still no suggestion as to what you would now enact as a matter of urgency, but like i said in various formats above .....


mind you, if you weren't so tight-fisted (your own admission), perhaps there would be some more money to go round the economy :-)

Abuse??????

I was smiling when I wrote the above!

electionista‏@electionista7h
UK - YouGov poll on #EU referendum: 39% would vote to remain in the EU, 42% to leave. If terms renegotiated: 50% to stay, 29% to leave............ends

In code this means,..... Tories will become puppets of UKIP before the Europeans and if not massive defections.

As VINCE says coalition will soon be a goner.

Concluding Labour lead will move to double digit figures.

that's cos abusing me gives you so much pleasure, especially as a change from abusing yourself :-)

No Vince Cable didn't say that. He replied to a journalist who asked if the coalition might split His just replied that it was possible. Of course, it has been possible all along, but not likely. The coalition will survive until the election.

I hope you noticed the YouGov poll showing the Labour closing to 3. It will soon be level as the economy improves. Inflation was also down today.

The problem with UKIP is that they can offer nothing. It is extremely unlikely that UKIP will get a single MP. The Conservatives are the only party that can offer a referendum on EU membership.

Some tories missed this yesterday...........

electionista‏@electionista16 Sep
UK - Populus poll: CON 33%, LAB 40%, LDEM 11%, UKIP 9% https://twitter.com/PopulusPolls/status/379552449889312768 …ends

BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY as Lynton Crosby as acknowledged..........

electionista‏@electionista
UK: @lordashcroft poll in 40 CON seats w/ smallest maj: CON 29%(30% national) LAB 43%(35%) LDEM 8%(12%) UKIP 11%(13%) ....ends Lib Dems and UKIP migrating to labour. Only just begun aswel.

Im smiling, Im grinning like a Cheshire Cat.

UKIP's support is spread evenly across the UK. The Libs support has always been concentrated in a small number of constituencies. The result will be UKIP gaining no MPs and the Libs retaining most of their seats with a few marginal losses. I have seen the same situation in many UK elections. The Libs do well with a low percentage, but do little better when their percentage increases. UKIP is well below a breakthrough percentage because they have no grassroots heartland as do the other three parties.

...........................................................................................................................................