Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

aldo - do we keep a kosher house? .... no, but i do not think that that method of killing is (now) nearly as cruel as it sounds ..... indeed, probably no more so than via an abattoir ..... there were of course very good health reasons for kosher and halal slaughter, but i'm sure you're aware of that

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/09/19/update-conservatives-and-labour-neck-and-neck/


Update: Conservatives and Labour neck-and-neck
by YouGov in Front Page and Politics
Thu September 19, 6 a.m. BST

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 18th September - Con 36%, Lab 36%, LD 10%, UKIP 12%;

bemax anyone?

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2013/09/19/tories-pull-level-with-labour-in-new-poll

The Conservatives have pulled level with Labour for the first time in three years, according to the latest YouGov poll for the Sun.

The survey puts Labour and Conservatives at 36%, with the Tories having come back from being 14 points down a year ago.

Support for the Liberal Democrats stood at ten per cent.

The Tories even appeared to be regaining their support among female voters, with the women's vote tied at 34%.

That represents a significant improvement among a section of the population alienated by austerity's assault on living standards and a perceived sexism among some sections of the Cabinet.

Tory HQ recently undertook a major operation to win back female support, including a summer focus on preventing child access to online pornography and measures to ban 'rape porn'.

Among 18-24-year-olds, the Tories even had a two-point lead.

The poll will make worrying reading for Ed Miliband ahead of his party conference next week.

The Labour leader's personal popularity is at an all-time low, with a recent Ipsos-Mori poll showing six in ten voters were dissatisfied with his performance.

His ratings are now as low as William Hague and Iain Duncan Smith when they were Tory leaders in opposition.

Miliband has suffered a summer of intensely negative press coverage, which only worsened after he managed to defeat a government motion authorising the use of force in principle in Syria.

That move should have been seen as a significant victory for the Labour leader, given that it was the first successful opposition push against a matter of war and peace for centuries.

But the ensuing press coverage portrayed David Cameron's position as principled and the Labour leader's as hopelessly contorted and cynical.

Meanwhile the coalition has been increasingly confident about celebrating economic growth, with George Osborne portraying the opposition as on the wrong side of history and Nick Clegg focusing on improving figures in his conference speech yesterday.

These are the animals considered to be impure according to Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14:

Bat
Camel
Chameleon
Coney (Hyrax)
Cormorant
Cuckow
Eagle
Ferret
Gier Eagle[16]
Glede[16]
Great Owl[16]
Hare
Hawk
Heron
Kite
Lapwing
Little Owl
Lizard
Mole
Mouse
Night Hawk[16]
Osprey
Ossifrage
Owl
Pelican
Pig
Raven
Snail
Stork
Swine
Tortoise
Vulture
Weasel

Reasons[edit source]

Some scholars, especially secular ones, have conjectured that the Jewish concept of "unclean animals" arose out of public health concerns by community leaders, since, in the conditions of the times, some of those animals are indeed more likely to cause food poisoning or transmit diseases to people who consume them.[17][citation needed] Other scholars viewed the Levitic prescriptions as somewhat arbitrary handicaps that were established to test the Jews' commitment to God and their community.[citation needed]

British anthropologist Mary Douglas proposed that the "unclean" label had philosophical grounds, namely it was cast on foods that did not seem to fall neatly into any symbolic category. The pig, for example, was seen as an "ambiguous"
Its all outdated bibical text from thousand's of year's ago

aldo - fascinating, but ......???? ......

the health issue is/was real as blood carries a lot of bacteria which quickly decays the meat and thus potentially dangerous to eat ..... there's a bit more to it than that, but that is the essence ..... on from there, i certainly remember that as a child, no one ate pork in the summer because that tends to deteriorate rapidly (+ tapeworms) and keeping stuff chilled was generally via a larder (few fridges)

"fish without scales" are also considered unclean by the jews though not muslims ..... again good health reasons as shellfish goes off very quickly

cynic

Good health reason's for those time's and for many 3nd world country's now , but no religious need for it, so why allow it in this country ?

The whole religious arena is a minefield of cultural dos and don't. One area for consideration is circumcision for both boys and girls. Should such mutilation be permitted. Face veils is another area. Halal animal slaughter may have to be stopped. Personally, I love halal lamb and frequent Algerian butchers of choice.

One area that I would like to stop, is the use of Shia courts. There should be only one rule of law in this country.

HAYS........

electionista‏@electionista18 Sep
UK - YouGov/Sun poll: CON 33%, LAB 37%, LDEM 9%, UKIP 13%

That was yesterday.

So are you really saying the whole country has changed by 4% in one day?.

Now come on by your own admission a few months back you were saying that you were one of them taking part in these polls and they were rubbish.

What you really have to look at are the Tory marginal seats and labour are making massive gains, thats were the election is won or lost and thats were you find the dissenter MPs in every party because they know their seat is at risk.

Different polls have been giving different numbers. However, they all are heading in the same direction. Pretty soon the polls will be showing the Conservatives ahead.

Yep the gap is closing but only because labour havent yet set out their agenda and policys. I think thats the right thing to do especially when the recovery is so soft eg, look at retail sales today.

You know I know its the marginals that decide who takes on the leadership of the country.

aldo - because it is an integral part of the two religions and in any case, will be very well monitored by the right authorities to ensure that there is no more cruelty than might apply at an abattoir

female circumcision (abhorrent) has a totally different purpose from that for men, where it is again a health issue

I think at some time in the future male circuncision will be stopped. It could be many years ahead, but there have been attempts to ban it already and religions are declining at a good rate.

male circumcision - don't be preposterous!

Greece moves to ban far-right Golden Dawn party

Government to table emergency legislation after murder of anti-fascist rapper Pavlos Fyssas at ultra-nationalist rally


Helena Smith in Athens

theguardian.com, Wednesday 18 September 2013 19.19 BST



The Greek government has hinted that it will seek to ban Golden Dawn after the far-right party was linked to the murder of a leading leftwing musician in Athens.

As violence erupted on the streets and demonstrators protested after the fatal stabbing of Pavlos Fyssas, a prominent anti-fascist, the public order minister, Nikos Dendias, cancelled a trip abroad saying the government would table emergency legislation that would seek to outlaw the group.

Amid renewed political tensions between the extreme left and right, the new law would re-evaluate what constituted a criminal gang, he said.

"Neither the state will tolerate, nor society accept, acts and practices that undermine the legal system," the minister told reporters, adding that the attack showed "in the clearest way the [party's] intentions".

Earlier in the day, police raided Golden Dawn offices across the country, with media reporting running street battles outside branches in Crete, Thessaloniki and Patras.

Voted into the Greek parliament for the first time last June, the neo-fascist Golden Dawn has been widely accused of employing violence to further its ratings in the polls.

The socialist Pasok party, the junior member of Antonis Samaras's two-party coalition, has campaigned openly for it to be banned, saying it should be considered a criminal gang.


More: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/18/greece-ban-golden-dawn-pavlos-fyssas

Last year there was a court ruling in Germany that circumcision of minors was harmful, and a violation of a child's rights. It has not been followed up as yet.

In the US 18 states have removed it from allowable procedures for Medicaid. That is expected to bring a large fall in procedures.


There is also a bill before Congress to give boys the same protection as girls regarding circumcision.

Entitled the "Federal Prohibition of Genital Mutilation Act of 2013"

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, to amend the Female Genital Mutilation Act of 1996 (a) so that boys, intersex individuals, and nonconsenting adults may also be protected from genital mutilation; (b) to increase the maximum punishment of offense to 14 years imprisonment, (c) to include assistance or facilitation of genital mutilation of children or nonconsenting adults as an offense, and (d) to prohibit persons in the U.S. from arranging or facilitating genital mutilation of children and nonconsenting adults in foreign countries.


SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE

This Act may be cited as the "Federal Prohibition of Genital Mutilation Act of 2013".

male circumcision is (a) pretty much painless when done at 8 days old per jewish practice, (b) a good "healthy option" and (c) i am told many women prefer their men that way ...... all good reasons

finally, it is of course nearly always a parental choice

Funny, I have been told by women that they prefer it the other way. Health benefits have been disproved. Parental choice has nothing to do with it. Why not mutilate children in other ways if it is parental choice. If it is ruled illegal in the future then parental choice won't come in to it.

like ear piercing?

health benefits - i.e. easier/better hygiene - are a matter of fact not hypothesis

Get back to work.