Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

ptjolden

No Iranian friends these days. I did have an Iranian girlfriend many years ago who also happened to be Jewish. As Fred says if you want to discusss WW2 or Iran then start a thread. I am no fan of Iran. If you start such a thread I might well post some anti-Iran comments. I am amazed that this thread seems to bother you so much. I regard Israel as being very similar to Iran and some areas quite a bit worse.

What I find most disturbng is to hear from pth that Fred's on the squelchy step. As I'm on the squelchy step - as I believe is Gausie - I'm quite sincerely hoping that we have a multiverse of squelchy steps or I could find myself cheek by jowl alongside Fred. This would be a cruel fate indeed. I don't expect that Fred would be any too happy,either.

i have yet to use the "squelchy step" and don't intend to start now ..... fred has done no more than usual - droned and droned and droned and droned and droned and droned and droned and droned and droned and droned and droned and droned and droned and droned, as if repetition and attrition will win the day for him

Cynic,

I think you might try read all the postings from the beginning of this thread and then get some help to understand them.


I think the majority of what I have written has concurred with World opinion of Israeli actions in Gaza and settlements in West Bank etc..

International opinion, in general, has been condemnatory of Israel. I think rightly so.

In spite of attempts to suppress, or ban this thread by a small vociferous group, of which you are a member, seems to have failed in their attempts. It seems more posters have been provoked by the actions and been prepared to put their heads above the parapets.

You may find it boring. Personally, if I did so, I wouldn't be such an ardent reader of the thread or poster as you.

It is interesting (only to a small degree) to me what underlies or motivates your comments.

Try re-reading this thread and in particular your own remarks.

Of course, I doubt that you have the concentration time span, to do so.

Instead you could go back to reading the Beano.

Fred - reading your comments and insights *is* like reading the Beano.

Turkey has barred an Israeli military flight from Turkish airspace. Turkey's prime minister confirmed that a "ban" had been implemented following the 31 May raid, in which nine Turkish citizens on the flotilla were killed.

The plane was denied permission to cross Turkish airspace and was therefore forced to fly an alternative route.

A senior Turkish foreign ministry official told the BBC there was now an official policy in place of banning Israeli military aircraft from Turkish airspace.

The official said this particular flight was banned purely because it had been the first such request from Israel.

Reports first surfaced in the Israeli newspaper Yediot Ahronot that an Israeli military cargo plane, carrying more than 100 officers, was barred from Turkish airspace.

At the G20 summit in Toronto, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan was asked by a reporter if the ban was related to the flotilla raid.

Mr Erdogan confirmed that "we started the ban after these events", according to a report by Turkish news agency Anatolia.

Masked gunmen in the Gaza Strip have
set fire to a United Nations-run summer
camp for children.

This follows a similar attack in May on
another UN-run summer camp.

Some militants view the UN as a symbol
of the West and claim that the summer
camps allow boys and girls to mix
freely - something that the UN denies.

The attackers tied up the guard at the
camp in central Gaza before setting
fire to chairs, tables, easels and
other equipment.

Camelot - I remember reading that story a few weeks back?

This is the second attack on a UN summer camp in five weeks.

Today

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10433004.stm

UN spokesman interviewed on R4 Today this morning. They have 250,000 children in Gaza taking part in these activities.

Acts of stupidity.

The provocation of Israel in its confiscation of Arab land and settlements provokes embitterment and extremism.

The blockades with the resulting punishment of all the people within Gaza encourages more and more similar actions.

It makes it easier for the extremist to manipulate the mobs feelings and gain "power".

Comments of interest to me were:-

"The head in Gaza of the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) for Palestinian refugees condemned the attack as "cowardly and despicable".

"This is another example of the growing levels of extremism in Gaza and further evidence, if that were needed, of the urgency to change the circumstances on the ground," John Ging said.

UN pledge

UNRWA said the camp would be repaired and promised to maintain its 1,200 summer camps, at which about 250,000 Gazan children take part in activities including sports, swimming, arts and theatre during the summer months.

Hamas, the Islamist movement that controls the Gaza, condemned the previous attack on 23 May.

Some in Gaza though believe that such attacks involving so many men could not be carried out with at least the complicit support of Hamas, BBC Gaza correspondent Jon Donnison reports.

Hamas also runs rival summer camps.

A spokesman for the Interior ministry in Gaza said it would catch whoever carried out last night's raid and that they would be jailed.

Lol - so in Fred's world it's Israel's fault that these secular summer camps were attacked and ransacked.

Haystack - I suppose you'll agree with Fred?

Very unlikely to be Israel and I doubt it is Hamas either. Israel would have no reason to stop these summer camps. I can see no reason for Hamas to stop them either. Hamas are usually very supportive of UN activiites. More likely some minor Islamist group that doesn't want boys and girls mixing in that way.

UN special rapporteur on the situation of human rights in occupied Palestine Richard Falk accused Israel of making serious violations in occupied Jerusalem classified by international law as war crimes.

In a report he issued on Tuesday, Falk underlined that Israel's threats to withdraw residence permits from Palestinian families in east Jerusalem and to demolish Palestinian homes in the city is a clear violation of the international law which criminalizes such acts as war crimes.

The UN official demanded Israel to stop such actions immediately, especially its Jerusalem mayor's intention to demolish 22 buildings comprising 89 apartments in Silwan area.

"International law does not allow Israel to bulldoze Palestinian homes to make space for the mayors project to build a garden, or anything else, he said.

He also criticized the Israeli intention to exile four Palestinian officials from Jerusalem, affirming that this is a violation of the international law and the international humanitarian law.

What is particularly shocking is that Israel appears ready to forcibly transfer these individuals based on their supposed lack of loyalty to the state of Israel, the official stated. Israel, as an occupying power, is prohibited from transferring civilian persons from east Jerusalem, and is prohibited from forcing Palestinians to swear allegiance or otherwise affirm their loyalty to the state of Israel.

Just been reading back.

Came across a quote from Axdpc a long time ago.

It seems apt to describe the hopes of the present Israel administration:-

"Time sanctified everything; even the most arrant theft, in the hands of the robber's grandchildren, becomes sacred and inviolable property."

--------------------------

The problem is that a couple of generations on anything is believed.

I remember reading in Bertrand Russell's History of Western Philosophy that Shintoism was accepted as the official religion of Japan in approx 1870 and that a law was passed making the Emperor of Japan a living God. Within two generations the people of Japan believed it completely.

It is interesting to note that the Emperor gave up his divinity on the orders of the USA in 1946. Now Japanese people don't believe he is a God.

Russell gave this as an example of how gullible the general population is.

but of course not the adherents of hamas and hezbollah or anyone on this thread!

All or some?

obviously it depends whether all or only some are gullible and the extent of same!

Of course, but I suppose what Fred was referring to was the fact that Israelis wrongly think that where they temporarily live is not Palestine.