Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

I did think his PMQT 'In speech' was actually extremely strong.

In fact, it made my wife and feel uncomfortable and we laughed about this and then we did ask each other, "Have we actually done the right thing voting 'OUT'?"

Anyhow, we pulled ourselves together and then agreed with each other once again, that we had done the right thing voting 'OUT'.

The main thing that throws people, is the fact that all EU agreements are seemingly non-existent once we vote ourselves 'OUT'. Now this does unsettle people.

But, let's say, think about the following as an example:

National Security:

Currently, we have an EU arrangement to share information with other members.

Cameron says, that won't exist when we leave the EU, so we will be extremely 'insecure and a lot less safe'.

This is actually utter rubbish. Indirectly, he is saying 'we will not share information with old EU partners, nor they with us after we've left'.

Well, why not? Surely it's in everyone's interest to continue doing this 'sharing of security information'? So we would continue with that sharing, wouldn't we? It's common sense to share security information with other countries.

And it's surely a FACT, that we don't need to have EU Membership to be able to share it, do we?

No, we don't. But "learned helplessness" does come to mind where the Remain lot is concerned.
However, remember that while we were allowed to wonder the streets when we were kids, and fend for ourselves, the likes of Cameron and Osbourne had nannies. The habit is as hard to kick as cocaine..I hear.

An unelected EU Commission orders an elected government what to do. Or at least tries. Maybe it should examine its own state of democracy and self entitlement.

Poland will probably ignore a Wednesday deadline to respond to a European Union probe into the state of its democracy, as the head of the ruling Law & Justice party said his country didn’t have to cooperate.
Jaroslaw Kaczynski set the stage for a showdown with the European Commission, which set Wednesday as the last day Poland had to respond to a June 1 assessment telling the country to restore the ability of Poland’s highest court to effectively review or overturn laws. The government probably won’t deliver a response today, spokesman Rafal Bochenek said.
“The EU proceedings are arbitrary and groundless,” Kaczynski, the leader of Law and Justice and the power behind the throne of Prime Minister Beata Szydlo’s government, told reporters in Krakow on Wednesday. “Adhering to them has been a gesture of good will on our part, but we don’t have to do it.”

Hahaha! Haystack(2963), You're either Cameron or one of his cronies to believe
that little gem...

If there'd been anything resembling an opposition, with an ounce of ability,
they'd have tore the snake oil sales limb from limb..

He's made more promises, done more 'U' turns, along with his buddy osborne
then any i can remember.

His negotiating skills are NON existent, and the opposition negotiators laugh at
him for his weaknesses.

ExecLine (2966) "I did think his PMQT 'In Speech' was actually extremely strong"


When you have no opposition to question your claims and you are allowed to
stand there spouting anything that promotes your cause, in a manner
of a snake oil salesman, it dosn't surprise you when you hear of people losing
their savings and valuables to some slick oily con man...

Cameron has been giving Labour a soft ride because they are very keen on Corbyn staying leader. If there was any serious opposition there would e a much more aggressive Conservative party.

i still think "remain" will edge the referendum, but let's suppose it does not
what happens in the two years after?

There are a lot of undecided people at the moment. Will these split according to the rest or will they be mainly one way?

Chaos.

Split in the con party.

People decrying the political leaders for misleading them,

Economic recession.

The pound in your pocket remaining the same value.

Cynics moaning.

8-(

my feeling is that "remain" will just carry the day on a late surge

Don't go wobbly on us Cynic. Stay firm. Project fear will be out in full force over the remaining days. They will taking our first born before the week is out.

i shall be voting "out", but still believe as above

It will all end in tears for the first kamikaze chancellor in history

By
Allister Heath


15 June 2016 • 9:28pm




Mr Osborne no longer has any hope of leading a Tory party that he now despises, and is unlikely to remain as Chancellor for long even if Remain wins next week.





So desperate is he to win, that George Osborne no longer seems to care if he goes down in history as our first kamikaze chancellor.

Not content with defying most Tory voters and activists, and insulting those who supported him in the days when he was trying to fix, rather than sabotage, the economy, he is now threatening Middle England with extraordinary tax hikes and pension cuts if they have the temerity to vote Leave.

Mr Osborne cannot recover from such scorched-earth tactics. No government would be able to pass his absurd, recession-inducing emergency Budget in the House of Commons: 65 Tory MPs have already pledged to vote it down, and no opposition party will touch it.

Mr Osborne no longer has any hope of leading a Tory party that he now despises, and is unlikely to remain as Chancellor for long even if Remain wins next week.



More: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/15/it-will-all-end-in-tears-for-the-first-kamikaze-chancellor-in-hi/

The €urolemmings are going off the cliff one by one...is it a virus?

Still no sign of a picture story ?...(like Milliband/Sturgeon).....now he's mine....

"Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy,
let it slip away again, Poor fools.

And their grandchildren are once more slaves."

- D. H. Lawrence

Liberty to do what exactly?

It seems like football hooligans many are more interested in destroying rather than building!

--=-=-=

Very true Granny. Some people fondly believe that Brussels (they don't even have a name, just an amorphous mob) will change as a result of a narrow stay win. Pure delusion. A 1 vote win is the same as a 10% win in "their" minds. Nothing will change because it is one grand self serving committee with no one in charge. There is the drunk Junk but he has no more power, thank goodness, than the other 4 presidents - small p by choice.
Vote out is the only option we have.

Sarkozy vows to push for Schengen overhaul
Former French president calls for reform of visa-free zone in wake of UK’s referendum

Nicolas Sarkozy, the former French leader who is eyeing another presidential bid next year, has vowed to push for a new EU treaty and prioritise an overhaul of the passport-free Schengen zone in the wake of the UK’s EU referendum next week.
The centre-right chief of the Republican party, who has yet to announce his candidacy for his party’s primaries taking place later this year, said an EU treaty was necessary to take back control of EU immigration policy.

“We’ll have to put [on the table] the idea of a Euro-Schengen, which would be made of interior ministers with a stable president,” Mr Sarkozy told Le Figaro newspaper. “It’s clear that it’s not one of our 28 commissioners who can drive Europe’s immigration policy.”
Mr Sarkozy has ramped up his anti-immigration and anti-Brussels rhetoric in the face of a resurgent far-right National Front party seeking to lure voters from the mainstream right by tapping into increasing anxiety over Islamist terrorism and mounting distrust of EU institutions.



amazing how eu plutocrat mentality is changing with the very real threat of brexit