germany 2006 begins in a few weeks. time to get a thread going for anyone's thoughts and opinions.

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ah ......the beautiful game!! joga bonita!!

tables and results

... saying that , I reckon I could manage 1 out of 4 against any goalkeeper in the world .... with my eyes shut.

I undertsand that Rooney was sent off for pushing Ronaldo rather than any stamping that may have been deliberate or not; and having watched Doc Procs posted clip I certainly am not sure. So if that was the case, why on earth was it a sending off offence? Mind you, England played better with 10 men, so it probably helped the overall performance.

I do have some empathy with Shearer's comments, it is hard to think of any England games during the WC where players have cheated to either win a free kick or get another professional sent off. Rooney had every right to go down under those challenges leading to his sending off, but like most British players he tried to stay on his feet to win the ball. There is no doubt in my mind that most continental players would have collapsed, rolled over 10 times and screamed in mortal agony, winning both the free kick and probably ensuring a yellow card was issued to the offending player.

Cheating is rife in football (take Robbie Savage as a glowing example - mind you, he is Welsh). Thiery Henry is rightly being slaughtered for his antics against Spain and Mancini rolled around yesterday clutching his face when video replays proved that no contact had been made.

Players are told that they must stay on their feet in the penalty area, because an attacking player will make sure that he falls over some part of that player by leaving his own leg behind, when it would be just as easy to stay on his feet (Italy penalty against Australia, a case in point).

Glad that is all off my chest, football really does have significant problems and with the amount of money circulating in the game, it aint gonna get any better.

pth

i really don't know how anyone can empathise with shearer. shearer is a footballer who has tried to not just influence the ref , but, to actually referee every game in which he has played. also, let's not forget that he himself has been booked a few times for diving in the area. the main reason why this myth that english footballers behave differently to continentals is the media. when mr gerrad took a dive in the friendly against hungary , not a single pundit or newspaper columnist said " gerrard dived". not one !!! some said there was minimal or no contact, that the ref was right not to award a penalty, etc, but no one used the word "dive" !! this is just one case. it is a "thing" with me. i can give you many more examples but i think you get my point. all footballers have pushed the rules to the limit and beyond since the game became professional and money got involved. it's the nature of competitive people. all footballers are "cheats".
pete, please tell me what else someone is supposed to do when they are off balance due to a foul, running at full pelt and suddenly some dickhead decides to lie down infront of you.? matterazzi did exactly the same thing earlier in the game and got red carded yet, not a single person or pundit has said the aussie took a dive !! funny that , innit!!

dil, i agree that good tactics help, but, it still doesn't excuse bad performances from so called world-class players. the other point that needs a mention is , just how fit were the english players? the only one who still looked full of running in extra time was owen hargreaves. the argentinians, (twice), mexicans and germans all looked fit when they played extra time.
speaking of hargreaves, i'm very pleased he has had a good tournament. i've been banging on about ferguson getting him at united for a 4 years now. definately the man to replace keane and also , a future england/united captain, imo.

Bos

You are totally correct re Gerrard, he dived, or did he take avoiding action from a dreadful two footed tackle which if had made contact may have caused serious injury. Yes it looked like a dive and some of the media did berate him for it and rightly so.

Matterazzi's tackle was a cynical attempt to take out a player from advancing on goal, no attempt to take the ball, stop the player and in my view was worthy of a striaght red based on the cynical aspect alone. I would hold the same view were it an English player. As regards the penalty incident, the Aussie slid in to where he thought the ball was going to go, misjudging by about a yard and the attacker fell over his body, I don't think the Italian had to go down (can't remember his name) but saw his opportunity and took it. You see these incidents all the time, leave a leg behind and you have a good chance of getting a decision. Both Argentina and England (Owen) secured penalties in this manner during the 98 WC when Beckham was sent off, for instance.

I guess I am making two points:

1. I do believe that British players are less likely to con decisions than their continental brothers, (try watching La Liga - it's a joke).

2. I am heartily sick of teams gaining an advantage by basically cheating.

I am not picking on Italy or Portugal in particular, the whole thing is endemic in the game and although Ian Wright was slated for his comments re the Gerrard incident, why not? If it's the only way to gain parity? Reminds me of the athletics drug cheats in the 70s/80s/90s (and perhaps even now) the only way you can win is by cheating.

Quite frankly it makes me sick.

pth

Thanks for the definition Bosley, its in The Sopranos, thought it meant something like that but was just checking.
England what jokers. The FA are a disgrace, we ve lost the world cup and perhaps more importantly the future by fuc**ng up everything with Phil Scolari.
We have the best team in the world yet our managers will undoubtedly be the death of us.
I'm not too bothered with Wayne, he is a superb talent and still young and as an MCFC Fan I look forward to seeing either Rooney or Ronaldo make way from MUFC, seeing that greasy rat run up to the ref to get Roon sent off, what a tw*t.
France are looking special.

Hope you don't mind me joining in guys- not about the state of football but about my take on England/Beckham et al

First it has to be hats off to Beckham. I believe genuinely that he has led the team well and has been a great ambassador for England. He has been a popular and respected role model for many thousands of kids and we should pay tribute to him for that. He got the OBE in 2003 and its not hard to see why. Good luck to him- I expect somewhere along the line the FA or government will find something for him to do to continue his ambassadorial role for the country. A World Cup on the shelf might well have brought a knighthood- alas not now!

So far as the World Cup is concerned I firmly believe that although most of our players did not play to their usual high standards this was largely down to the selection in the first place in taking along a non playing forward, and then playing 4-5-1 with Rooney up front. Totally stupid. If anyone is to blame it is Eriksson, nobody else, though I have serious doubts about the future given that McClaren was his sidekick and presumably part of the decision taking process.

The positives were Crouch, Lennon and the shining light of Owen Hargreaves.I suppose we Uk based fans never get to see him other than for England so has not really felt like one of us. What a player in that holding role- fantastic. Well done the manager on that gem. The failures for me were Lampard and, less so, Gerrard and Cole. It might have been because of the 4-5-1 but anyway they were less than adequate.

coeliac1

Agree with many of your points, I have said my piece as regards the state of fottball and I don't propose to keep harping on, guess Bos and I will have to agree to disagree to a certain extent.

Personally I put England's failure to suceed down to Sven. We do have quality players, but rather than pick a balanced team he tried to pick a formation to suit the players at his disposal. A manager with guts would certainly have dropped Lampard who has had a dire competition and probably Beckham as well. Why he took Wallcott rather than Defoe or Bent is inexplicable.

I do fear for the future, McLaren as Sven's sidekick will perhaps have absorbed some of his tactics, I hope not the negative ones (although I cannot remember many postive Sven tactics). Teams should be picked on form, not on reputation, Lennon and Carrick should both have remained in the team. England looked so much better with Lennon causing problems on the wing. I have to admit I have never been a Hargreaves fan, but he was truly outstanding against Portugal, I am a convert.

pth

pete, i don't think we have to agree to disagree as i think we are both in agreement on most things.

"2. I am heartily sick of teams gaining an advantage by basically cheating."

"all footballers are "cheats". "

where we disagree is that you still believe english players are good as gold and have to resort to cheating to gain parity. my point is that all footballers cheat, always have done and always will. maybe some countries/clubs put more time and effort into it, but, essentially, they all cheat. they all commit fouls, they all claim the throw/corner/goalkick, they all fall over whenever there is contact, they all hold/grab, etc. the corinthian spirit died as soon as money got involved. this is why fifa issue directive after directive, to counter the way players push the boundaries until it becomes unacceptable. i found martin jol's piece in today's times appalling considering the way the dutch players behaved against portugal. the bottom line is that it is up to the players to change things. but we both know they wont.

Morning Lee
No, I don't believe for one moment that English (or British) players are good as gold, but I do believe, rightly or wrongly, that it is largely an imported disease into our game. Whatever I believe is immaterial really, FIFA/EUFA will never take the drastic steps required to eradicate the cheats, there is too much money involved.

morning pete. we agree on much, but, as you say, with the money that's involved in the modern game, the players will do whatever they believe they have to do to win.

If you back heal someone in the nackers you deserve to be red carded

Morning all,

Terrible pity about England going out. FWIW I think Sven's formation should bear a large part of the blame as how many times did somebody make a fantastic run up the wing and cross only to find that there was nobody to receive the ball? A waste of many golden opportunities, IMHO, and something that should have been changed after the Ecuador game as it was clearly causing us to miss out on opportunities to score at that point.

Here in World-Cup-Land the locals are convinced the Cup is theirs for the taking. Personally I think France are going to be lucky against Portugal and then go down 2-0 to Italy in the final.

soultraders, me too ;)

btw, how did your date go?

Hi Bos,

Errm, very nicely, thank you. :o)

ST.

I hope Ronaldos contract with Man U gets tawn up after that performance!! As for Lampard well what can I say, more attempts than onyone else on the WC.... Glad to see the back of Sven, with a bit of luck we'll McLarian actully knows how to pick a team. And finally hands up how many people would have selected Campbell, Lampard for the WC and how many would have played Willcotts????

Dont think it would be safe for Ronaldo on or off the pitch anywhere in England !!!..His reputation as a cheat is well covered by those who go to the match in the UK..So how can he even look his teamamates at Man U in the eyes after this ? Wish Vinny was still playing ! ..............................................But in the final analysis England were left bereft of strikers and what with such a congested midfield they played so deep in thier own half This dearth of strikers even with Owen and Roony looked fragile; but without them their formation looked defensive and not one the English employ ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, . ........As for France i knew once we beat Spain 3-1 we would beat Brazil due to the number of chances they give you at the back ....... lts a France V Germany final . !!........and Z.Z.crowning an incredible career in carrying the WC back to Paris ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, . ......As for Mclaren ? Uninspiring at best ; and irrational at worst .........................Whats that clown ever done ?? More of the same. YOU need a YONGER El Tel !!! @+ J

first of the semis tonight. i'm feeling very nervous already!!! christ knows what state i'll be in by the time the game begins. absolutely loving how no one is giving italy a chance!!! reading some of the papers these last few days you'd think there were only 3 teams in the semi finals. portugal getting a lot of press because of the england game, germany getting a lot of press going on about the wave of optimism carrying the team, france getting a lot of press because the pundits think they are wonderful, the brazil of europe!!! no offence , tfc, but take zidane out of that team and it suddenly becomes very basic. i hope to meet france in the final, get revenge for euro 2000.

Got a gut feeling it won't be a great much tonight, looks like a 0-0 written all over it... Do hope i'm wrong and the Germans go at the Italians... Reading back I agree on most of the points you raise reference the cheating that goes on in all football... About time we had a fourth ref who can view TV coverage (like Rugby League), it's the only way forward to deal with these cheats... As for McLaren I have a feeling we won't improve, how can you have an International Manager that has not had International experience either as player at international level or at least managed a high profile club to some degree of success... Why or why did the FA set themselves up for having to appoint before the world cup... Big mistake in missing out on either Guus Hiddink or Scholari...

germany have yet to beat italy in a competitive game. past scores are either draws, or italy winning by 1 goal. goes without saying i want the later. if it goes to penalties i wont even bother to watch. germans + penalties = victory.
a couple of coincidences before tonight's match. last time italy won the world cup it was against a backdrop of scandal in italian football. also, in that year there were four european teams left in the semi finals. ooer!!!