http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2740621.stm

Users have vented their fury after it emerged cable company NTL is imposing download limits on its broadband service.
The company now limits its customers to one gigabyte of downloaded data per day despite advertising that an advantage of broadband is "unlimited surfing".

Subscribers say the limit amounts to as little as two-and-a-half hours of use a day for a service that says it is "24/7".

NTL says the move is necessary to help all of its customers get a consistent service.

Broadband has generally been sold on the basis that it is "always on" and is a much faster way of downloading pictures, videos and music.

But NTL's terms and conditions now limit downloading to a level consistent with "normal use".

It defines the one gigabyte limit as equivalent to "200 music tracks, 650 short videos, 10,000 pictures or around 100 large software programmes downloaded per day".

i am with telewest paying 25 pm for the standard broadband, near 500kb/s download speed. i say this because a few months ago tlewest introduced a double speed connection for 35 pm. pls note thes prices apply to customers already subscribing to at least one of tlewest's services of telephone/tv, otherwise ad near 5 to the porices above. surfing on this service is truly unlimited.

i was so jealous to see ntl offering broad band for 15. on contacting them firstly it took ages for them to reply and then i was told the two services do not overlap areas. that is if you are a telewest coustore it means no ntl cables pass you by.

realy you do not get something for nothing. first the long time to answer the phone. i alos understand from complaints raise on this bb that if you have a technical queery or problem you would simply be left on hold for such a long time that you become fed up and call off. telewsest technical service takes ages to get through to, allow half an hour as an average. but the line is free. i have no idea about ntl cost of calling their technical service.

there was an issue with reliability whn i first joined telewsest nearly a year ago. but reliability is excellent these days.

I also use TWT Blueyonder and it works fine - last problem was many months ago - they have stopped the free help line but it is at national call rates.

Clearly NTL will lose a number of customers if they start limiting the download - as most users will be looking for high download useage. It is one of the two big reasons for moving to bb.

As it happens I also have a NTL account 24 x 7 56k service which works fine but has an irritating two hour cut-off albeit you can reconnect.


ains

You are lucky to have any access to broadband at all!! Sadly, the cable companies, and BT for that matter, discriminate against the majority of people - those who happen to live outside the big cities! Just think of the difference in attitude of the companies and politicians if all city-dwellers were white and country-dwellers were coloured; the companies would be compelled to wire up the countryside.........food for thought and an indication that all that matters in this country are votes at election time!

Bones: Tell me about it. I live four miles outside of Reading -- the heart of Silicon Valley UK, but I feel I live in the Scottish highlands when it comes to getting Broadband. BT has got a good way of talking down at us 'Rural communities'. Their trigger levels seem to be set just beyond the attainable.

Hmm,
As an very early adopter of NTL, and very pleased with the service apart from early hiccups, I will have to watch my L2 usage very carefully.
Definitely not amused with 2 teenage sons who also have large bandwidth requirements !

TWT effectively allow networking and I am intending to go wireless in near future - so I would not be happy if they followed the same course.

One of the computer mags was running a feature on the alternatives to BT/cable this month .... PCW - pc pro or PC shopper. More expensive - a little less reliable but if it's a question of speed ........



ains

Telecomplus don't have any restrictions on their broadband, costs 25 per month, and connection is free.

I have just listened to a NTL spokesman on the Steven Rhodes 3 Counties Radio program,he states that the 1GB is only a guide line and will only be imposed on consumers who download over this limit on a regular basis.
He states that 1GB is the equivalent of visiting 20000 web pages per day.
But is this the thin edge of the wedge for future restrictions or price increases.

From NTLHELL website

Dear Customers,

We have received a good deal of feedback since the new guidelines on Internet usage went out on Friday. Weve also received a number of questions about the new policy, which I have answered below. First an apology this was poorly communicated and as soon as I became aware both myself and our CEO, Barclay Knapp, assumed full responsibility to ensure your questions are answered and quickly dealt with. We are sorry for any inconvenience this has caused. Thank you to everyone who took the time to write. Where possible we are taking your suggestions on board and making changes to our plans to accommodate them.

Yours sincerely,

Aizad Hussain,
MD, ntl:home

---

1. What does the 1 Giga Byte limit mean in practical terms?

As a rough guide, 1 gigabyte of data per day is approximately:

100 large software programs
200 music tracks
650 short videos
10,000 pictures
20,000 web pages

And should not impact gaming applications at all.

For a more specific guide, there are a number of freeware applications that approximately monitor data download. We will be looking to distribute an ntl-approved monitor shortly. In the meantime, however, customers need not be too concerned: NTL will be in touch and able to provide advice if you regularly exceed the limit for your speed of service.

2. Can higher speed broadband customers have a higher daily download limit?

In response to the strong customer enquiry we got on this point, we will be investigating whether we can provide variable limits based on service speed. We expect to have an answer soon.

It should be noted, however, that some customers confused our 1 Giga Byte limit with their Kilo Bit speeds. 1 Giga Byte is equivalent to 8 Giga Bits.

Also, in practical terms the slower speeds of the overall Internet often cause average speeds to be lower than the maximum speed allowed. Thus users could have several more actual hours of downloads than would be indicated by strictly dividing the limit by the speed.

3. How flexible will ntl be about these new limits?

We will be very flexible. Our objective is only to limit very frequent or persistent heavy network use that can impact other customers. Therefore we will ONLY contact customers who exceed the daily data limit for three or more days in any consecutive 14-day period.

If you occasionally exceed your data limit, it will not be a problem. Remember our goal is to give freedom and easy usage to our customers. This rule ensures that you have peace of mind and that we are able to reduce the unfair prolonged usage by a small number.

4. When and how will the limits be applied?

For the next 60 days, NTL will monitor network usage and only contact customers who exceed the limit as described above. Our aim is not to disturb customers; rather, our goal is to make customers aware so that they may change their usage patterns if possible. If we successfully alter the usage patterns, there would be no further need for any other adjustments.

5. Will customers be disconnected if they use more than the given limit?

No. Our customers are important to us. We will simply advise customers how to moderate their bandwidth usage. Our research has shown that consumers will be happy with this approach.

6. Is there a plan for very power users who exceed the given limits?

We are considering a range of new services especially for customers who want or need to download large amounts of data but which will avoid impacting other, ordinary customers. We will work with a forum of users to design these services.

Other questions

Q. Why was there no announcement of this change of policy?

A. Only a few of our customers will be affected by this change, and we plan to communicate with each of them individually.

Q. Why do you advertise an unlimited service, and yet now seek to limit its use?

A. Our unmetered dial-up Internet service has the trade name Unlimited, because you can use it whenever you like for a single flat fee. There is no daily download limit on our dial-up Internet products. Our broadband service is no longer called unlimited.

Our broadband service has always carried an Acceptable Use Policy.

Q. Does a daily download limit constrain the amount of time I spend online?

A. No, not necessarily. You could surf the web all day and download very little data. The average broadband internet customer downloads less than 100 megabytes (0.1 gigabyte) of data per day.

Q. What activities could result in exceeding the daily download limit?

A. Downloading very large video files or audio files continuously from newsgroups or file-sharing services like Kazaa, is the most common cause of very high data usage.

Q. Tell me more about the power user forum mentioned earlier.

A ntl is compiling a list of customers who are power users who are willing to provide feedback on suggested new products and services for heavy users. To join the list of power users, simply email our Internet Director, Bill Goodland at bill.goodland@ntl.com.

Q. How can I tell how much data Ive downloaded in any given day?

A. As a rough guide, 1 gigabyte of data is approximately 200 music tracks, 650 short videos, 10,000 pictures or around 100 large software programmes. For a more specific guide, there are a number of freeware applications that approximately monitor data download. However, customers need not be too concerned: NTL will be in touch and able to provide advice if you regularly exceed the limit for your speed of service.

I too live in a village, but a couple of people got together and have managed to get BT to lower the level required for Broadband, and set up a web page, to encourage everyone with an e-mail (or 2) addresses to register. Now in just under a year we have now been told by BT that we have reach the level to get it. (I must admit I have more than one telephone line, and registered all of them to assist in reaching the limit - and I may have registered them more than once.......) Although BT is slightly more expensive, I'm going to stay with them - they provide a pretty good service and I never have any problems.

I wonder how the streaming data we all have from, prices, charts etc will add up each day - more than 1Gb? I don't know, but I'll probably find out soon enough!!

I've received 222Mb since 7 am. It's easy enough to check, just double click on the two little green terminals on the bottom right of your screen.

Legilly
streaming data doesn't normally take up much bandwidth (compared with refreshing an entire page for example) so you have nothing to worry about

cant see what all the fuss is about personally, this will only affect those who are probably downloading for commercial or dubious reasons

FWIW, I can confirm that streaming data from MoneyAM is very bandwidth efficient. Basically, only the changes to the information are sent (the 'deltas' in techspeak, hence the DeltaStream(r) trademark for the technology).

If anyone is concenred, I can get you some typical numbers but downloading normal web pages is very much more expensive in data terms.

Derek (IST and MoneyAM)

Ntl clarifies broadband rules

Ntl has apologised to its UK customers affected by the limitations it has imposed on its broadband service, admitting that the information was poorly communicated.
Over the weekend the cable firm decided to restrict downloads on its fast net service to one gigabyte per day, the equivalent of around 200 music tracks.

Consumers were angry that the service - which was advertised as unlimited access to the net - had been changed.

Ntl has since removed the term "unlimited" from the service and promises to be flexible in its enforcement of the new rules.

All internet service providers are wrestling with the problem of how to make broadband attractive to customers in terms of price and bandwidth and still make money.

Most are operating on wafer-thin profits already and some analysts think that tiered pricing - charging different amounts depending on how much bandwidth people use - is the only way forward.

Bandwidth hogs

"As more and more people download music and video then ISPs will have to move to this. It makes sense for heavy users to pay more," said Jill Finger, analyst with research firm IDC.

haystack,

ntl may have appologised seeing the negative impact and knowing how desperately they need customers. but as one of our colleagues here stated is this the thin end of a wedge? ntl and others, including telewest, desperately need money and would seek any excuse to bolister their very weak finance and balance sheets. telewest is 5 billion in the red! and all these cable companies are banking on theri broadband as their mainstay.

in a few years time our tv, radio, fridge, washing machines security systems will all run through internet connections! they would then be able to name their price if not strictly regulated.

I've got Pipex. I checked last night and after 13.5 hours continuous on-line, I'd received about 150MB.

well, i checked my usage this morning and it worked at 7mb/hour. and this has been for the first hour of market opening using streaming monitors and looking all over the place and playing some music from the internet for a good measure.

hilary in post 18 above has reported near twice my rate. maybe she has downloaded some heavy streaming stuff.

eitherway, 1 gb seems like a very generous allownace. and this puts to question the assertion by haystack that 1 gb amounts of 2.5 hrs of surfing, unless of course this has involved downloading video tracks using a fast system. certainly not ordinary surfing.

the problem with cable broadband is that unlike the wired broadband is that your speed relies on how much others using the same cable connection, your neighbours, do make of the system. and in a crowded uran area such as london this should matter a great deal.

the speed of broadband available in the uk run typically at the bottom of the range at 500kb/s. in the usa speeds up to 6 times this are available and in between as well. the more you pay the faster connection you obtain and the bigger the limits.

by the sound of it ntl have not been unduly unreasonable, particularly in view of their very cheap price of 15/m, chaper than many dial up 7/24.

There is hope out there.............

Firm slips broadband cable through gas pipe

No-dig option keeps the traffic flowing

By Paul Hales: Wednesday 02 April 2003, 16:28

PRIVATISATION was a great thing in the eighties. We had a phone company, a gas company and an electricity company supplying "utilities" to our homes, and everything was working sort of OK. But there weren't shareholders making loadsamoney and the members of the board weren't aggressive enough so didn't get million-pound pay packets. So they all had to go -- flogged off to the highest bidder.

Now the gas company sells electricity, the electricity company sells gas, the phone company makes a fortune out of us and the trains don't work.

But competition means that there are also loads of companies competing for our business, so all as it should be in an advanced capitalist society. But one of the drawbacks of this system is that they all have to dig up the road at one time or another to supply us with our needs.

The cable company NTL dug up a stretch of road for a mile and a quarter between the Bedfordshire village of Barton le clay and my own ex-haunt of Sharpenhoe. This was all well and good except that there was such poor demand in Sharpenhoe for cable that the cables never got fed through the yellow plastic pipes laid for the purpose. When I sought Broadband from BT for a village ten miles for the nearest exchange, they laughed their socks off. And when I asked NTL about the cable and they too fobbed me off admitting that although they'd done the digging they never laid the cables. The tw**s.

Now, not every cable company will dig up the road for nothing. And now some won't have to dig up the road at all, thanks to US firm OFS Optics

OFS Optics, formerly a division of Lucent, is set to install its cables to supply buildings in Long Beach, California with broadband, in a mile of natural gas pipeline.

The company says its DuctSaver FX cable, developed by Sempra Fibre Links, a subsidiary of Sempra Energy can be installed inside a pipeline while gas is still flowing, eliminating the need to dig up the road. It is therefore "quicker, less costly to install, and less disruptive to traffic and urban-planning schemes".

The DuctSaver FX cable is an all-dielectric fibre cable measuring 5.8 mm in diameter. It is designed to run in utility lines, existing city ducts and gas lines and has been successfully deployed previously in the US and in Europe, the company says.

Can't see what the problem is. Fluck Em!!! If you signed up to unlimted service and it is now limited, tell them to come and pick up the equipment and stop paying them. Bastards. I hate this kind of mentaility; 'We asked our customers what we needed to do to make our service more efficient and they said - maybe restrict times allowed on line (mamby pamby bunch of a@@holes). Not 'INVEST SOME MONEY IN GETTING BIGGER AND BETTER BANDWITH THEN!!!!!'

A few of my friends and i went on xbox live in Jan. I was the only one that could not get NTL, so had to have a 512K connection from BT, they all got 750MB from NTL - my 512k connections runs faster!!!! Now they are telling them, that if they play on xbox, they will be subject to extra charges!!! I say stuff em; they are bloody p&*cks.

Short the aholes into hell and don't waste an atom of mucus on their sorry pathetic burning carcuss when they get there.