Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

because i work on my pc pretty much all day, and on this thread, i sometimes add my own bits and bobs, though unfortunately most get swamped within 30 minutes by yet another can of trash

Well if thats the case dont camp out here if you dont like us, camp out on your FTSE thread and add your own bits and bats their then.

Im sure all 3 residents will enjoy debating with you.

FTSE thread restricts itself to its title, but before i trundle home, i'll just repeat what i posted yesterday evening and to which i think there was no response

anyone any thoughts as to the justification for teachers striking?

anyone any thoughts as to why teachers should or should not be awarded pay rises according to results or as deemed warranted by their headmaster/mistress or the board of governors - as is the case in private industry?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/02/boris-johnson-phone-in_n_4028511.html?ir=UK&ref=topbar

Cynic Ive brought that up with Hays this afternoon and asked him why are they really going on strike.

Obviouly I havent had a reply from the Grand Master the man that knows it all but Ill tell you the real reason and not the gimmick headlines in the papers all papers aswel.

From my knowledge as an ex recent school governor the teachers would call any action off if .....
graded pay ie, pay grades according to results were dropped.

The system was like this the head could award so many grades from A to E, A being the top E obviously the bottom. The number of A to Es was allocated by the Local Authority on pupil count, ie the more pupils you had the more you would get and more funding in general you would get.

It was all started under LMS.... Local Management Of Schools where powers were handed down to schools rather than the LA having all the spending powers. Schools then decided what they spent on from their budget.

The pay additions were allocated to staff by the headteacher not neccesearily just on grade results, and the panel of school governors had to sign off the Headteachers recommendations by agreeng to them.

BUT this is where it gets messy some of the scool governors were actually teachers themselves or partners or freinds SO had a vested interest and it could cause all types of conflict.

Also some heads were accused of having favourites.

But the bigest bone of contention at my school was that the awards could not be split ie, an award was 1 unit and 1 unit had to be awarded so if you had 2 female teachers job sharing one of them could be dapper and the other useless but both got 50% of the award and other teachers detested this especialy male teachers.

Their was also the problem where teachers who had been given an award turned it down because they didnt want internal bitchy friction.

I actual live just around the corner from one of the teachers and I saw her last weekend where she confirmed it was the old chesnut which was at the centre of the industrial action.

Take the extra pay awards out and imo the teachers will call off any industrial action.

LOL....corker. MAX another one for you.

Dave Camoron‏@EtonOldBoys46m
Are you an arrogant pompous liar, totally out of touch with everyone? Yes? Then why not join the Tory Party, we need more people like you

GF,

I agree with your last post.

Another problem is that the intake at a school varies for a multiple of reasons and from year to year.

Evaluating a teaching skill is open to difficulties and being evaluated by one or two individuals (heads included) is problematic.

=====

Cynic,

Where have you been collecting or dumping your garbage to-day?

8-)

Or as n would say .

Cheers Fred. I gave up because it was like a fight at a football match unbelievable the way they laid into each other. I can do without that stress.

Watching the present dreary tory mob coming out to defend their policies and the "on the contrarrrrry policies".


They will look back in this political phase and turn red.


We arrre being fairrrrrr.

MAX another one.......

Dave Camoron‏@EtonOldBoys54m
Dear Hard Working People the Job is not done yet, vote us in again and we will finish the job and the country

he he this is a corker please all have a go and see what you score.......

Just for fun: Iain Duncan Smith's 'realistic' unemployment simulator

http://toys.usvsth3m.com/iain-duncan-smiths-realistic-unemployment-simulator/

fred - on the golf course i'm afraid - i was total shit :-)

sticky - i have had vicarious but close experience on "teacher value" as Beloved was on the board of governors of a local school for a good number of years ..... certainly one of the major gripes was the difficulty (almost impossible) of getting rid of bad teachers, and that cannot be right

is running a school really any different from running a business?
no
so if you are found to be no good at your job, within certain rules and parameters, you can be sacked ..... within the first x months, that is easy, but i suspect it does not apply to teachers

as for automatic pay rises, that is certainly a nonsense .... no private company would ever dream of such a thing ..... with regard to teachers, though i accept the difficulty of measurement, exam results per se are not or should not be the sole criteria .... however, in business, you may well give someone a pay rise "because they're worth it" ..... running a bunch of teachers, is surely no different from running a smallish workforce, so internal bitching is just one of the things that happens - and pretty much ignored though i guess that presupposes an intrinsically happy and decently run outfit

on a scarier note, when my daughter was redundant for about 18 months, she contemplated the idea of going into teaching art ..... she went on some course or other where she shadowed an art teacher in some secondary school ..... she was appalled by his lack of enthusiasm and encouragement and expectations of the children .... he was solely interested in the pupils getting adequate - not good - grades .... two of them were clearly keen and at least reasonably talented, but were never going to reach their potential with a teacher of that calibre.
how would you deal with someone like him if you can't sack him and worse, are obligated to give him a pay rise each year?

=============

not sure that the above is as well thought out as my usual contributions, but i'm a tad weary

The earliest Boris would be an MP is after standing at the general election. That rules him of replacing Cameron before the election.

Paying teachers based on performance/skill is a great idea as is sacking useless teachers. Of course there will be the occasional anomaly due to favouritism as happen within private companies. Welcome to the real world.

Cynic in reply to your post above, their is a massive difference between running a small school and a business.

For a kick off youl find small business do NOT have trade union support and that makes one HELL Of a difference re- negotiating pay and conditions.

WHICH IS what my post was about.

And re private firms automatic pay rises ......loads of them do just to keep up with inflation. Im beginning to think your firm is going back into the dark ages.

. I didnt mention anything about sacking poor teachers.

Thats a different issue.

Hays again making comment on a subject he knows nothing about.

Hays,

"The earliest Boris would be an MP is after standing at the general election. That rules him of replacing Cameron before the election."


I hear there is one MP prepared to stand down for a bye election on condition they give him a knighthood.

He doesn't think he has a cat in hell's chance of getting back in after the next election with Cameron as party leader.

----------

You still haven't answered the questions.

Bye the way, do you think the Con. Party conference with Cameron and George in control showed it to be:

The party for Victory?

The party of Unity and Strength?

The party of Freedom?

The party of Honour?

The party of Work?

The party of Greater Britain?

The party of Peace?

--------

I wonder why, because that is what your party leadership is saying it is providing.

Cynic.

There is a difference between flogging an object over a counter and delivering information and skills to a class rooms of delinquents of all shapes and sizes and different backgrounds in a classroom.

Also, there is a value to the "relationship" of the teacher to the pupil, otherwise you could plug all the little orphans who go to Eton into a computer and forget about them.

Just trying to in shorthand to explain a problem.

Of course it is reasonable to weed out "failing or incompetent" teachers, but one would assume that unless they are p off their skill levels goes up with time and ongoing practice and training and therefore incremental pay increase are justifiable.


One would suppose an MP with 10 years in the HP knows his way around the bars and the expenses claims offices in the institution better than one with 2 years experience.

But other many other factors come into play.

When I worked for my Local Council Education department, failing teachers were moved sideways into jobs in the LA offices and their salary at the time of moving was protected(ring fenced) and they recieved inflationary rises after that.

At the time I left 28 were on the books having been moved sideways 27 had requested to move back into teaching.

Speaks volumes about how teachers get used to a 32.5 hour week. 27.5 hours in the classroom and 5 hours non contact time. Plus they wanted back their 6 week summer holidays.

Strange aswel school inspectors who were situated in my LA offices still kept their 6 weeks holiday priveledges. Strange feeling going into their offices seeing them empty during august. Obviously were all ex school teachers.