Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/05/ukips-nigel-farage-should_n_4048631.html?ir=UK+Politics

Ukip's Nigel Farage Should Not Take Part In TV Debate, Says Sky News Head John Ryley

You are scraping the barrel looking for excuses Haystack, John Ryley is just towing the party line.


"David Cameron has said only leaders with a fighting chance of being prime minister should be involved, though Labour leader Ed Miliband and Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg have said they are willing to debate Farage."


I take it you would also rule out Cleggy from the debate? Cos he has even less chance than Farage of being PM come the next election.


What is your position, other than trying to support the vile Cameroon?

Even the torygraph can see through big daves bullshit!



Nigel Farage is right about the EU – David Cameron’s renegotiation plan is pure grandstanding


By Nile Gardiner World Last updated: October 5th, 2013

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100239813/nigel-farage-is-right-about-the-eu-david-camerons-renegotiation-plan-is-pure-grandstanding/



Nigel Farage: under no illusions about the EU



UKIP leader Nigel Farage argues in a piece for The Telegraph that David Cameron’s EU strategy is doomed to fail. He is right. As Farage notes, “the Prime Minister thinks he is on an EU ship heading west, but in fact he is strolling westwards on board a ship that is heading east to “ever closer union.” Farage goes on to say, quite accurately: “It is also about time that the pro-European establishment of this country was honest with us. There will be no change in our relationship with the EU before, during or after Mr Cameron’s futile “renegotiations”. The EU knows this, Mr Cameron knows this – and the people of this country need to know this too.”

Mr. Farage’s op-ed coincides with an interview (which he references) given to The Telegraph by the President of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso, who outlines in stark terms the huge opposition to Cameron’s re-negotiation strategy within the Brussels establishment. In Barroso’s words:


"Britain wants to again consider the option of opting out. Fine, let's discuss it but to put into question the whole acquis of Europe is not very reasonable," he said,

"What is difficult, or even impossible, is if we go for the exercise of repatriation of competences because that means revising the treaties and revision means unanimity. From my experience of 10 years, I don't believe it will work."

… "I am for a stronger EU not a weaker EU, he said. It is important we do this exercise in a pragmatic way avoiding what I call theological discussions about competences. Our approach is not an ideological one. It is not about weakening the EU. It is not about giving up on integration or on ever closer union."



David Cameron talks of taking “powers back from Europe,” but this is delusional grandstanding. The European Project, as Mr. Barroso declares, is heading in only one direction – towards further economic and political integration. (It will eventually fail, but not before the architects of ‘ever closer union’ drive it to breaking point.)

This is not only Barroso’s view. It is also the uncompromising view of the EU’s undisputed heavyweight, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who has spoken of her desire for “more Europe, not less Europe.” Her finance minister Wolfgang Schauble, arguably the second most powerful politician in continental Europe, has made it abundantly clear that he sees the need for a deep fiscal union within the EU, as a precursor to full political union. In an interview with Der Spiegel, Schauble called for an “elected” EU president alongside a European Parliament and Senate with the power to enact legislation. As Schauble put it:

Those who want a strong Europe also have to be willing to surrender decisions to Brussels… there are still too many national competencies in foreign and security policy. Europe should speak more effectively and clearly with one voice in the world.


The French, led by far Left Socialist Francois Hollande, are just as Eurofederalist as the Germans, as are the Spanish, headed by Mariano Rajoy, who will be in no mood whatsoever to accommodate British demands for renegotiation against the backdrop of mounting tensions over Gibraltar. The reality is that London is alone among Europe’s big players in wishing to see any significant shift in power back to the nation states. Berlin, Paris and Madrid all understand that full-scale renegotiation weakens the drive towards further European integration, and threatens the very fabric of the EU project.

The reality is that David Cameron is selling the British public a red herring on Europe. His pledge to hold a referendum on EU membership was a big step direction in the right direction, but his determination to campaign for Britain to stay in the EU is not only flat wrong – it is potentially suicidal for the Conservative Party. The issue of Europe could well end up costing the Conservatives the next general election. Why? Because its leader will not take a stand in defence of national sovereignty, and refuses to back a British withdrawal from the European Union.

Over the course of this Parliament British public opinion has become increasingly hostile to membership of the EU, disillusioned with the idea that the British people should have their laws dictated to by unelected foreign bureaucrats who couldn’t care less about the British national interest. But Mr. Cameron’s instincts are the same as the Foreign Office establishment that remains wedded to the notion that Britain must remain in the EU at all costs. The prime minister is increasingly out of sync with what Middle England thinks on this issue, and will suffer for it both at the European Elections in 2014 and the General Election in 2015. As I wrote in an earlier piece, Mr. Cameron is swimming against the tide of history, by fighting to keep Britain chained to the EU:


You cannot be a member of the European Union and retain national sovereignty, the essence of freedom for the British people. The European Project is an anti-democratic anachronism that does not belong in the 21st Century. As Lady Thatcher aptly put it “that such an unnecessary and irrational project as building a European superstate was ever embarked upon will seem in future years to be perhaps the greatest folly of the modern era.” Once Britain leaves the EU, other countries will undoubtedly follow, which is a key reason why the likes of Jose Manuel Barroso will fight tooth and nail to try to lock Britain in.

The drive for self-determination, economic freedom and individual liberty are three of the strongest forces of modern times. The European Project is a barrier to all of them, which is why it is doomed to failure.

Clegg not only has a good share of the vote, but the Libs have plenty of MPs. Their support is concentrated in such a way that they will win plenty of seats at an election even if their support falls. The current opinion polls show that UKIP will get no seats and the Libs will get plenty even though UKIP may be ahead in the polls.

The reason is that UKIP's support is evenly spread across the country with not enough to win in individual constituencies. If we had AV or full proportional representation then UKIP would win about 11% of the 650 total seats. The Libs would get a similar number. The reality is that with first past the post, UKIP will get no seats and the Libs will get about 56, which is what they have now.

The Libs got 23.5% of the vote last time (almost unchanged from the previous election) and it only got them 8.6% of the seats. Labour only received 6% more votes than the Libs and it got them 257 seats. The figure I have seen is that UKIP need 24% of the vote to get just one MP. If they get much above that figure they will start getting more seats. It is just a fact of life due to a combination of our electoral system and entrenched support for existing parties in the constituencies.

Farage should be allowed to take part in the debate.

Its Camoron running scared who doesnt want him on the stage even more now after todays new actions re- to early vote on ref.

The tory boys are frightened -hitless at UKIP.

I certainly am not in favour of no benefits for under 25s.

I dont think its right young kids at 16 can get a council house nor do I think Milli has got it right kids voting at 16.

BUT if we were at a position of FULL EMPLOYMENT and raging employment chances (not mickey mouse employment)and vacancies a plenty then some benefits should be scrubbed but a country where North Of London their are NO JOBS..........no chance.

Call me Dave doesnt seem to have grasped the fact that you cant fit a square plug in a round hole.

What good is training if their arent jobs to go into after finishing.

What will happen is that kids will do course after course like they are doing now.

Camoron need to bring employment to them and not the other way round which would put ever increasing demand on house prices in the south and increase the number sleeping rough.

Foreign holiday makers dont want to see tramps laid out around the Railway stations in London. It was bad enough 5 years ago, god knows what its like now.

No one be should be worried about UKIP. They will amount to nothing at the election.

I can see Haystack as posted probably waffle about polls or ukip.

Hes scared out of his wits of UKIP.

And Milly.

Take him at a pinch, hes a well known trouble stirrer, was checking on advfn yesterday about this and he has loads of differing handles, so beware.

It is funny how gf pretends that he has filtered me for life. When he gets to boiling point he has to resort to pretending that someone has emailed my post to him.

Speaking of polls, this today,s

Latest YouGov / The Sunday Times results 4th October - Con 33%, Lab 38%, LD 11%, UKIP 13%;

. There is very widespread (70%) support for forcing the long-term unemployed to do community work or risk losing their benefits and a narrow majority (52%) support stopping benefits for under 25s who are not in work or training (39% oppose).

YouGov finds big decline in those thinking that LAB will win a majority

ha ha ha ha, I see haystack is reponding to my taunts.

Just think chaps YOU are paying more in taxes because this sick individual is tax evading and laughing all the way to the bank.

Yes money you could be using on say a foreign holiday or a meal out for you and the wife.

But this sick invidual cheat is cheating you out of those little extras in life because like he says hes a self confesssed tax evader and YOU are picking up his tab.

very funny. gf seems to be suffering from OCD or similar. The medication doesn't appear to be very effective.

Ukip is the only hope for the uk

Then there is no hope as UKIP stand no chance. Only the crazies will vote for them.

Hays,

"There is very widespread (70%) support for forcing the long-term unemployed to do community work or risk losing their benefits"

I hope that applies to your own offspring.

Are you going to be the first commandant of the concentration camp in London?

I have always thought the carrot was more inducive than than the whip.

Or was that carats?

from where did "There is very widespread (70%) support for forcing the long-term unemployed to do community work or risk losing their benefits" emanate?

i'ld be surprised if it was that high, but not at all surprised if there was a a significant majority in favour (i'm one of those) - and yes, i know the same would apply to hanging (no i am not in favour)

so tell me fred (and sticky), where do you stand (or sit) on either of the above two proposals?

The unemployed doing community work is a good idea, except for the problems.


Transport

Training

Health and safety

Supervision

Insurance

Tools and equipment


That's a few, i'm sure there are many others.

there are always 1,000 excuses of why not to do something .... that's why so many say, "I had that idea" or "I nearly did that", whereas the few can say, "I had that idea and did it"

i guess you (MK) fall into the first group

You have no idea what group I would fall into cynic, hence your silly post.

Any practical solutions on offer from you?

cynic
The level of support for the under 25s comes from a poll published today. I am not surprised at the percentage. I didn't say that I agreed with the idea.