Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Officials discussed visa-free travel for Turkish 'Special' passport holders to UK.

Ian Duncan Smith has accused David Cameron of "an appalling deceit" after
it emerged British Officials have discussed granting visa free travel to the UK
for Turkish citizens.

A cache of five documents , seen by the Sunday Times suggests that EU officials
are looking to keep a visa deal with the country off the grid until after the 23rd
June referendum.

According to the telegrams, the European Commission has tried to "avoid
major escalation of tensions" with Turkey "before the end of June" so the
issue could be kept "under control".

Cynic.

With you on the high turn out/low margin win.
Lots of politic problems within EU. Single currency for all members, lack of transparency etc.

A world wide recession and stagnation, massive debt overhang, poor fiscal control in southern Europe, Middle East conflicts that we miss judged, mass refuges and economic migration etc etc all hit as a perfect storm.

The EU has to evolve as it responds. UK better in than out. How we in the UK see our role will be answered in next few days.
Jumping off the ship, without a life belt, as she rides the storms not necessarily the best option. Maybe better to put our energy into helping bale out the biliges and adjust the rudder.
UK can't expect the US, China , India or our old Commonwealth to throw us a life belt.
Like it or not we are part of Europe.

Better in then out my rse...

Its a failed ideological system...Stagnation...Yes in the EU.

The EU under performed other developed economies since the crisis of
2008/9.

In the five years to 2016 the euro area grew by 2.9%, Canada by 9.3%,
USA by 12%, Australia by 14.5%.

And why does anyone think its beneficial for an institution to take 8 years
for a trade agreement to be completed, as in the case of EU-Canada..

It should show anyone with an ounce of common sense that having to get
approval from twenty eight different countries, each with differing cultures
causes problems, money and jobs..

I'm out for the poor future generations of this country. I feel that a lot of voters only think of themselves. The politicians will be holding their heads in their hands in a few years. Very odd how all those businesses announced a preference for being in, all within hours of one another. Nothing odd about that, I'm sure. I wonder what some of those company leaders have been promised ?

The UK has missed out on TRILLIONS of pounds in trade due to EU
membership, according to a respected think tank.

A number of small independent countries that apparently had no
"collective clout" were still successful in agreeing trade deals.

Chile, Korea, Singapore, and Switzerland had ALL been more successful
then EU in agreeing trade deals with other countries.

One example was Chile that had agreements in force was 58.3 TRILLION
pounds.

While in the same period the EU agreements in force was just $6.7 trillion USD.

A massive anomaly, and a disgraceful performance by the EU...

Report author Michael Burrage. "Myth and Paradox in the Single Market"

Published by CIVITAS.

The €U is a fabulous place if you are one of the chosen few, not so good if you are a normal worker.

Look around at the unemployment figs country by country, it's bad up north, but for the sunset countries, it's horrendous.

The sprouts solution? More €U. (even if it doesent work)

Yep, it's pathetic the economic arguement is best served by LEAVE.
Re the Turks, in one of his tele debates Gove said the government was at this time spending money to actively get them in the EU. As far as the 30 odd tasks are concerned, just employ Goldman Sachs to wangle the figures, it worked for Greece, now look at them.
2517

Vicky sorry for the tardy reply, yes UK co's are being taken over and obtaining grants/loans from the EU to take their production away from the UK. If you think about it the EU is doing this with our money.
2517

If the vote is to REMAIN then there will be £Billions to pay to shore up failing countries, failing because of the Euro. The mind boggles when there are millions of migrants (mainly young men) from outside the EU forcing their way into Europe and the hierarchy stands by and allows it to happen when the young men of Spain, Greece. Italy, and Portugal are unemployed. The youth of those countries have been betrayed big time by their self-serving politicians.
2517

I will be glad when Thursday is over. Can't watch the news without listening to bs. Hopefully Friday we will be out but, if not, others will carry on. We and Germany are actually doing well. The rest of the EU is pits. Spain can't form a government. The opposition is increasing in Italy. Poland is fed up with the EU commission, Hungary thinks they are all imbeciles etc etc.

It wont go tits up till Brussels runs out of other peoples money.

Granny
"Officials discussed visa-free travel for Turkish 'Special' passport holders to UK."

Special passport holders are just senior civil servants.

Well it does not matter who they're fecking for, there is still an
estimated 1.5 million of these 'special' passport holders..

Now do frick off with your superfluous repetitious nonsense...

It all comes down to economics.
Modern politicians will not accept the destuction wrought by a deep depression and the likely resulting world wars.
We happen to be alive in a period of experimental financial engineering. National Central banks just might be able to reset the worlds economies without the destruction of previous world depressions.
So far it's working , but inflating our economies is taking time.
Europe's economy will recover and you'll all feel better.
We can't afford to withdraw into ourselves.

will10, What utter tosh you spew out in an effort to hoodwink and bewilder those
who you think believe your financial acumen and explanations, in your
sycopantic praising of the EU...

There is not going to be 1.5m. You are combining two different stories.

Special passports are mainly held by civil servants, their spouses and their unmarried children below the age of 25. It does not extent the possibility of working.

There is no agreement relating to UK. The agreement is only in Schengen area. A British diplomat suggested visa-free travel for some Turkish nationals should be extended to the UK but this is not government policy. The diplomat, Ms Douglas said that when the EU deal was implemented "we will need to develop our own lines on the UK's stance to visa-free travel for Turks".

"One option would be to assess again the possibility of visa travel for Turkish special passport holders which would be a risk, but a significant and symbolic gesture to Turkey."

She works at the British Embassy in Turkey and was making suggestions regarding policy and that is all there is to it.

Gove leaked the documents to create a fuss.

You can fool some of the people some of the time......etc. Vote out!

I want out but not because of all the false stories that Gove and co are spreading.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/20/brexit-would-trigger-sterling-fall-worse-than-black-wednesday

'Brexit would trigger sterling fall worse than Black Wednesday'

George Soros warns devaluation would mean more disruption than when UK dropped out of Exchange Rate Mechanism in 1992

The world’s most famous currency speculator has warned that a vote on Thursday for Britain to leave the EU would trigger a bigger and more damaging fall for sterling than the day he forced Britain out of the Exchange Rate Mechanism almost a quarter of a century ago.

George Soros, writing in the Guardian, said a Brexit vote would spark a Black Friday for the UK, but the devaluation of sterling would bring none of the benefits to the economy that it enjoyed after it dropped out of the ERM on 16 September 1992 – Black Wednesday.

He said that, as in 1992, there would be big financial gains for speculators who had bet on the UK leaving the EU but that such an outcome would leave “most voters considerably poorer.”

Soros said that unlike after Black Wednesday, there was little scope for a cut in interest rates, the UK was running a much larger current account deficit, and exporters would be unable to exploit the benefits of a cheaper pound due to the uncertainty caused by a no vote.

“Sterling is almost ­certain to fall steeply and quickly if leave wins the referendum,” Soros said. “I would expect this devaluation to be bigger and also more disruptive than the 15% ­devaluation that occurred in September 1992, when I was fortunate enough to make a ­substantial profit for my hedge fund investors at the expense of the Bank of England and the British government.”

In the months following departure from the ERM, interest rates were cut from 10% to 5.5% – easing the financial burdens facing consumers and businesses. However, with official borrowing costs at 0.5%, Soros said rates were already at the lowest level consistent with the stability of British banks and meant there was little the Bank of England could do in the event that Brexit led to a recession.

A vote for leave would force the pound to slide towards parity with the euro – “a method of joining the euro that nobody in Britain would want” – and plunge more than in September 1992 when his $10bn (£6.9bn) bet against the pound broke the Bank of England.

“Too many believe that a vote to leave will have no effect on their personal financial positions. This is wishful thinking. If Britain leaves the EU it will have at least one very clear and ­immediate effect that will touch every household: the value of the pound would decline ­precipitously. A vote to leave the EU would also have an immediate and dramatic impact on financial markets, investment, prices and jobs,” Soros added.

“A vote to leave could see the week end with a Black Friday and serious consequences for ordinary people,” Soros said.