Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

That's an interesting point of view. However much of the information about Israel comes from people on the ground, such as the UN, the EU, Aid Aagencies, Red Cross and many others. It is easy to dismiss it all as journa;lism, but most of it is not. And it is not just second hand reported findings of these agencies. You can read the first hand reports from people who were there.

For instance you can read the actual testimonies from Israeli soldiers who were forced to commit acrocities. This is not journalism.

Breaking the Silence is an organization of veteran Israeli soldiers that collects testimonies of soldiers who served in the Occupied Territories during the Second Intifadah.

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/testimonies_group_e.asp

Very heavy topic.

A comment from the neutral corner: this thread makes for not bad reading without Fred's contributions.

Neutral ? Are you Swiss

NEW YORK
The Israeli Prime Minster, Benjamin Netanyahu said that he will not renew the "freeze" on settlement building stressing that settlement building will resume as soon as the moratorium ends in September.

These statements were made in a speech before the U.S. Council on Foreign Relations on Thursday after he met with US President Barak Obama.

just shows what an arsehole he is too ..... i wonder if we can visit a re-run of the 10 plagues on the region ... at least they would be more effectual than the 10 commandments which both sides signally ignore

July 09, 2010
A ship commissioned by a Libyan charity organization made preparations Friday to set sail to Gaza loaded with aid.

It comes over a month after Israel raided Gaza-bound ships, killing eight Turks and a Turkish-American on one of them. The flotilla was trying to break Israel's blockade on Gaza.

The Moldova-flagged cargo ship Amalthea will leave by Saturday from the port of Lavrio, south of Athens, carrying 2,000 tons of food and medical supplies, officials from the organization told The Associated Press. There will be 27 people on board.

Amalthea's journey to Gaza is expected to take up to 80 hours. Aid on the Amalthea includes sacks of rice and sugar, and corn oil and olive paste all mostly donated from Greek companies and charities, organizers said. The aid was loaded into the hull of the aging vessel by crane.

In addition to 15 volunteers the ship has a crew of 12 from Cuba, Haiti, India, and Syria.

why does the vessel need a crew of 27?
will hamas again refuse entree to the aid if it is diverted via ashdod?
if so under what total specious pretext?
how will hayseed and pals deem that to be acting altruistically?

12 crew.

15 volunteers to do what?
merely observe peacefully and without intervention - as would be required if UN observers?

The volunters on all but one of the ships in the last aid convoy were peaseful observers. The other one had people who fought back at the illegal seizure.

"illegal" is inflammatory (as intended) and certainly contentious and even debatable.

"peaceful observers" remain to be proved, but certainly if they are, then it is more than likely that the vessel will be ordered into ashdod for inspection, which the captain will be obliged to obey, even if it goes against his wishes - PTH is much more knowledgeable than i on maritime matters, but i'm 99% sure i am correct

the question then remains as to whether hamas will refuse entree to this "humanitarian aid", even if it has been "depleted" ..... history indicates that they will, which as i said, makes hamas's altruism (you said it!) more than a little suspect

Their aim is to stop the closure of a sea access to Gaza. That's what the ship is trying to do and what more ships that are being prepared are trying to do.

time to get real .... hamas aim is to be as provocative as possible, ideally goading israel into disproportionate reaction as with the first ship ..... of course hamas want open access to gaza, but merely for the import of more armaments .... relief for the innocents in gaza comes a long way down the list of priorities .... the very cynical might even say it would just be an incidental by-product

Of course Hamas is tring to be provocative. They want all crossings and access open and yes it is also for armaments. Why is it that Israel is allowed all the arms they want and the Palestinians can't have any?

I do think that Hamas is interested in the the well being of the residents of Gaza and the West Bank. This is not incompatible with their struggle against Israel. Of course Hamas should have weapons and should use them against Israel. Are you suggesting that the Palestinians just sit idly by while they are oppressed and their land is seized.

so you think a successful outcome will only be from the barrel of a gun?
history tells us time after time that this is almost never the case and that in the end, there is always a political resolution.

israel hs much to answer for and is both morally and politically in the wrong in many aspects

there should certainly be a separate and independent homeland for the palestinians, though israel equally has an inalienable right to exist peacefully - clearly something hamas and hezbollah and their adherents refuse to accept

so, until h+h and their puppeteers change their mindset, this tiresome and wasteful conflict will continue - a gross over-simplification i fully accept

===============

you admit that hamas only want "open seas" so they can import armaments

can you therefore really expect that israel should sit back and allow that, especially given h's clear and stated aim is to destroy israel?

meanwhile, h's puppeteers rub their hands with glee, as political ferment in the region suits their assorted nefarious ends

Why does Israel have a right to exist as a separate entity?

Hezbollah has nothing to do with Gaza and what is going on there. Hamas are a very different group. I didn't say that Hamas only want open ports for arms. They want their borders open. For instance people in Gaza are not allowed passports and cannot leave the country.

Israel stops ALL exports from Gaza to keep it in poverty. What is the justification of stoppong exports. Businesses can hardly survive in Gaza. Whether arms are brough in or not their borders should be open. No other group of people around the world have these restrictions placed upon them. Hamas do want to improve the lot of the people of Gaza but I would expect they want arms as well. Hamas wants their land back. The Israelis can live there as well, but it is Palestinian land.

who says and who says and who says? - other than you and your clique of dangerous loonies ..... can't determine which bit is the largest load of rubbish i have read in a while, so all much of a muchness ..... clearly some mineral deficiencies in your diets, and probable mental deficiencies too, all leading to psychopathic tendencies

There are plenty of Jews here, in the US and other parts of the world who think Israel should not exist. Israel uses its arms aginst the Palestinians every day. It is only reasonable that they have something to fight back with. You are complaining about the theory that a solution will be by force of arms. Tell that to the Israelis as it is they who believe in that strategy.

Israel is even expelling lawfully elected Palestinian MP from Jerusalem, which is the city where they were born. Israel is illegally revoking their residency. This is in East Jerusalem, which is the Arab part and now illegally occupied by Israel. Currently three MPs are living inside the Red Cross compound where they have been given sacturary for the last cpuple of weeks or so. It will be interesting to see if Israel dares to attack a Red Cross mission.

The Israelis are evicting Arabs from their homes in East Jerusalem and allowing Israeli settlers to take over the homes while Israeli soldiers help them. The former inhabitants have been living in tents often next door to ther houses. This is ethnic cleansing of the same sort that happened in Serbia, Kosovo, Rwanda etc.

This is ethnic cleansing of the same sort that happened in Serbia, Kosovo, Rwanda etc. ....... total and utter twaddle! ...... though i will grant that it is totally reprehensible ...... but do add a little balance by admitting that hamas (and hezbollah) are little better and, given half a chance, would probably act much worse

i live more in hope than expectation