Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

The nuclear plant deal has cross party support. Labour is just as keen as the Conservatives on the China/France/UK deal.

is that true hays?
i'ld guess labour will just give tacit support so they can deny, but assuredly i see no squawking from that quarter

All this tax dodging cant be an accident.




Tax Special Investigation: Firms running NHS care services avoiding millions in tax


First of a series: companies running care services are among many avoiding millions in tax through a legal loophole


Richard Whittell , Emily Dugan

Monday 21 October 2013



Companies receiving lucrative government contracts to run care services looking after tens of thousands of vulnerable people are avoiding millions of pounds in tax through a legal loophole.


The firms are cutting their taxable UK profits by taking high-interest loans from their owners through the Channel Islands Stock Exchange, an investigation by Corporate Watch and The Independent has found. By racking up large interest payments to their parent companies, they are able to reduce their bottom line and cut their tax bills.

The news will increase concern about NHS reforms that are seeing private companies take more responsibility for services. It also raises questions about the Government’s commitment to tackling corporate tax avoidance, which David Cameron has said “corrodes public trust”.

Over the course of this week, The Independent will reveal how more than 30 UK companies, including some of the UK’s most recognisable brands, are benefiting from this legal tax loophole, known as the quoted Eurobond exemption. HMRC considered restricting the use of the loophole in 2012 but never took action.

The care companies known to benefit from the loophole are: Partnerships In Care (several of whose mental health facilities have recently failed inspections), Independent Clinical Services, Priory Group, Acorn Care, Tunstall, Lifeways, Healthcare At Home, Spire Healthcare and Care UK.

Margaret Hodge, chair of the Public Accounts Committee, said: “Companies have a duty to pay their fair share of tax relative to the profits they make in this country. Yet it seems every week brings a new revelation of another business that is using artificial structures to move profits out of the UK, seemingly for no purpose other than to avoid tax.

“The case of these private health companies, which The Independent has brought to my attention, I find particularly depressing. These are companies who get their income overwhelmingly from taxpayers’ money, for the purpose of providing a vital public service, yet do not appear to be making their fair contribution to the public purse.”

One of the companies, Partnerships in Care, managed to turn what would have been a hefty tax bill into a tax credit in 2012, according to accounts filed at Companies House. It owes £321.9m to its owners Cinven, a European investment firm. By paying interest of £29.7m on these borrowings in 2012, it helped to turn a healthy operating profit of £31.7m into a pre-tax loss, leaving the group with a tax credit of £629,000.



More: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tax-special-investigation-firms-running-nhs-care-services-avoiding-millions-in-tax-8892925.html

H/S, Alf and any other "Con" party individuals, you really must wake up and realise that it's "your" party that is in Government... and no other.

quite probably true, but as it says "avoiding millions in tax through a legal loophole" .... so what's wrong with that? .... as has been written before, if you want to stop tax avoidance, then close the loophole(s), but if the loopholes are there, don't complain if they are used

this has always been the "problem" of complex tax laws .... the more complex, the more legit ways to avoid paying it

I agree with cynic , its not a loophole its the tax law. Why Jimmy Carr didn't stick two fingers up to the critisem he got I don't know., grovelling on tv saying his so sorry , I made a error of judgement. You don't get the Tax office saying sorry but we have found a loophole in the law and we want more of your money.

and your point Stan is what exactly?
the labour gov't shut all tax loopholes and the conservatives re-opened them in the last 3 years??????
I don't think so, do you?

Yes, you are right, close the loopholes.

Easier said than done...simpler to say, if you want to trade here, you pay primary tax here, no excuses, don't like it, go elsewhere.

Like the healthcare groups above, coffee shops and no doubt the Chinese and French will find a way of pocketing the proceeds from the power station bottomless pit.

I don't believe you cannot design a tax regime that cannot be got around, therefor, I suspect it's all built in and part of the game.

MK - you're right it's complex to the extent that i couldn't even start to complete my own tax return ...... however, while it is certainly true that personal taxation is a quagmire, company taxation is an absolute minefield with all sorts of hidden nasties/benefits if you start to mess about too radically - e.g. international companies may choose to avoid setting up biz in the first place

H/S, Alf and any other "Con" party individuals, you really must wake up and realise that it's "your" party that is in Government... and no other.

... That's my point Alf.

and ???????????????
all the current "wrongs" belong solely to the party in power?

try being less ovine - i.e. being less woolly (and not just bleating along after fred)

Get back to work... You great Bonzo -):

i'm working very hard to get you sorted out, your fleece silken and keeping you from being skinned :-)

Treasure Islands.

This is the sort of legal fiddle that denies us a fair crack.




Amazon makes UK publishers pay 20% VAT on ebook sales

Luxembourg-based company profits from European tax anomaly, itself paying only 3% VAT on digital books sold to UK readers


Ian Griffiths and Dan Milmo

The Guardian, Sunday 21 October 2012 21.25 BST


http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/oct/21/amazon-forces-publishers-pay-vat-ebook





Amazon: £7bn sales, no UK corporation tax

Online retailer's British operation owned by company in Luxembourg which receives all payments for books, DVDs and other goods


Ian Griffiths

The Guardian, Wednesday 4 April 2012 21.16 BST


http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/apr/04/amazon-british-operation-corporation-tax

sorry to be pedantic, but if it's legal then it isn't a fiddle - a straight statement of fact!

i don't disagree with the sentiment, but if the powers that be want to stop that loophole, then perhaps they can, but in so doing, they may open another or there may be an unforeseen and unpleasant result ..... that's why it's so difficult to play around with (current) tax laws; it's never ever straightforward

Cynic,

You are becoming more and more obtuse.

Whether the previous government made mistakes, or not, is irrelevant,

This conning tory party is in government now and should be taking responsibilities for the problems it inherited and also the problems it has and is creating.

Ducking and weaving and pocketing its salaries and expenses and touting trips abroad for their retirement funds is inappropriate and they should be thinking about long term solutions, not simply cutting and slashing for political ideology.

It seems to me, many tory party camp followers are supporting their policies, because it benefits their own personal pockets, Saying "its always been like that" often means " I like it like it is and bugger the rest", which from where I am standing appears to be your position.

There was talk, from this government, of not leaving debts to subsequent generations but it appears to think a pauper's grave with increasing long term indebtedness for the UK is OK.

Resorting to running to the money lenders abroad does not resolve our problems and is a get out. (Whether, the coalition, Cameron, Osborne of Miliband and Balls agree or not. IMO)


No money for Nuclear power stations. How much money was sloshing around the market for Royal Mail went the tories gave it to the punters.


=========

i'll continue the above if you like by taking you down a current international favourite - withholding tax

If this or previous government which to stop the escape of "cash" to various off shore havens they could if they applied themselves to doing so.

Using a system because it is legal does not make it right and the governments are betraying the UK by not attempting to correct the problem.

WELL Ill go to the foot of out stairs my hero Dennis is on twitter, unbelievable not a spoof either................

Denis Skinner‏@BolsoverBeast19 Oct
Will RBS become the next Tory "give-away"?
British public saved the bank at an average share price of 502.26p, what will Tories sell at?

why are mistakes by a previous regime irrelevant?
it's a reasonable argument that some should be on the way to being sorted - like the economy perhaps? - but most are not that easy, which is why very few acts imposed by one regime are removed or even modified by the next

nuclear power stations
if i knew even half the detail - and none of us do - then i might agree with you
but of course you are slagging from ignorance anyway

however, as i'm quite sure you won't bother to vote - comme d'habitude (that'll help when you emigrate to france) - you really have no right to do other than accept the status quo and get on with your life