Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Cynic,

Get back in your rowing boat.

Chemicals.

I was deliberately being obtuse and was fully aware of what you were implying and recognise that volumes, of all basic commodities' quantities and methods of transport are indicators of direction of the market and I do occasionally look at them and their indicators.

But your original comment was loose.

=========

I think "volunteer corps" is good and would provide a service to all of society.

It may provide an insight to problems and conditions of others in society.

But don't lump that with providing cheap labour for private companies or attempting to used those employed in the "real unemployment" figures.

Or have more detailed and honest methods of defining employment figures.

This government is more interested in "presentation" than "actualities".

fred - can't be bothered to wade back, but no doubt you were wanting to imply that i didn't know what i was talking about and thus my comment that world economies, including uk's, were picking up and had been so doing for nearly the last year was without foundation

and of course, you baldly state above that that it is only the present gov't who presents unemployment figures with much gloss etc ...... total balderdash of course, but that wouldn't suit you to admit

Cynic as we have discussed before the governments figures on employment are totaly misleading and one of the main reasons why camorons popularity is in a big decline.

People are fed up with him telling porkies.

they are no more misleading that the previous bunch's ..... as has been written before, if the system/method of calculation has been the same for 12 months, then at the very least it shows an accurate trend; further, unless you can show me otherwise, i don't think the system/method has been changed within the last 3 years

you might not like what the numbers show, but that's just hard cheese

Tensions mount in the Netherlands as UN questions ‘Black Pete’ Christmas tradition

Dutch defend Christmas customs condemned as racist

Elisa Criado

Wednesday 30 October 2013





It emerged last week that a UN working group is investigating the Dutch custom of white people dressing up as ‘Zwarte Piet’ (Black Pete) as part of their traditional Christmas festivities. The leader of the UN group, the Jamaican academic Verene Shepherd, has spoken out against the practice on Dutch national television, condemning it as ‘a throw-back to slavery’.


The figure of ‘Zwarte Piet’ is an integral part of the Dutch Christmas tradition. In the Netherlands, children receive gifts on the fifth of December from ‘Sinterklaas’, a version of Saint Nicholas, along with his black slave helpers. These were originally portrayed as scary figures that would beat naughty children with a bunch of twigs and take them away in a sack to Saint Nicholas’ fictional home in Spain. Today they are mainly characterised as the clown, acrobat, joker and entertainer. Although the custom is clearly linked to slavery and colonial times, most children are currently told that Black Pete gets his colour from the soot in the chimneys when he delivers their presents.

A few weeks before the culmination of festivities on the fifth, Sinterklaas and his ‘helpers’ arrive by boat and are greeted by the local children in large-scale events that are staged across the country. The largest event takes place in Amsterdam and is broadcast on national television. Both professional ‘Pieten’ and many volunteers paint their faces black, their lips red and don curly black wigs and gold earrings. It is also customary for the children watching the event to do the same. They greet the procession of Sinterklaas and the Pieten by singing traditional songs, lyrics of which include: ‘Even though I’m black as soot, I mean well’.



More bollox here, and comments not allowed, surprise surprise: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/tensions-mount-in-the-netherlands-as-un-questions-black-pete-christmas-tradition-8909531.html

They are misleading. It still hasnt clicked for you as it Cyners. Its not the numbers more the content of the job statistics eg, a customer care programme ie , training for 6 weeks (Now called an apprenticeship LOL LOL LOL) leads to a person taken from unemployment figures and added into employment figures.

After the six weeks is up if no job found which is usual, takes about 3 weeks to re-sign on to claimant count. Plenty of Mickey mouse training positions like this aswel.

Then theirs ZERO HOURS contracts well over 1.2 million now. just 1 hour per week puts them into employment stats and out of unemployment stats.

Throw in the self employed Zombie jobs 700,000 where self employed (normaly youngsters) cant even pay off their interest on monthly overdraft and by definition are really bankrupt and they are not included in unemployment figures but employed figures.

All this has grown and grown in the last 3 years as the economy contracted due to austerity.

labour didnt have this problem as they provided real jobs.

Please please cyners once and for all try and get your head around this.

Nu Lab started the ball rolling with the zero hour stuff in 2008, by quietly changing the employment laws (aided and abetted by the tories and the dims)

like i said sticky .... oh i can't be bothered to reiterate, but read what i wrote

labour produced real jobs?
oh hahaha

the dynamics of the labour market inevitably change over time, just as do the memberships of golf clubs or mens' working clubs (your sort of place)

==============

Zwarte Piet
typical pc crap yet again!
they'll be telling us next that reindeer are being persecuted and used as forced labour to pull Santa's sleigh next ..... and don't forget road and air weight limits and safety regulations, as well as restrictions on working hours

Cynic said......
cynic - 31 Oct 2013 10:40 - 31945 of 31945

the dynamics of the labour market inevitably change over time............ends

Yes that is correct and to reflect the weakness of the british economy run under the Torries.

As a rule of thumb you should always double and a bit the tories figures for unemployment.

Always been known as the party of unemployment and liars.

''Always been known as the party of unemployment and liars''. If that is the case gf, why on earth have you financially supported them for so long.
2517

Employment going forward is a serious problem that has as yet no real solution. The changes brought about by technology have removed whole areas of employment. Retail is on its way out. Office jobs are disappearing do to computers. This will only get worse. The long term need for bums on seats is reducing every day. Manufacturing is shifting to the far East and then will move to Africa. There is little chance of full employment in the UK ever.

In the not too distant past people looked forward to a society where work would reduce to give us all more leisure time. Of course this was a pipe dream. Where would the money come from to fund masses of people doing very little.

The long term prospect is that no one will pay most people to do anything as their labour will not be required. If you look say 30 or 50 years ahead then there is going to be mass unemployment at all age levels. We may be talking about a half of all people never having a job. The effects on society will be considerable. Most developed nations will go broke at some point with maybe a third or more of their population living in extreme poverty.

While those living in Britain have to pay capital gains tax (CGT) of 18% or, more commonly, 28%, if they make a profit when reselling all but their main home, non-resident property owners are currently exempt for all their properties.


this has to be preposterous, even if it wouldn't raise huge sums

================

sticky - the trouble with you and a few of your other buddies is that you totally blinkered by prejudice

and an excellent observation from george too!

Hays - If you look say 30 or 50 years ahead then there is going to be mass unemployment at all age levels.

that is merely an updated version of what henry ford said about robots building cars

however, though the requirement for manpower moves about from industry to industry in time, lots of new industries are also created - eg the computer and aviation industries in the last 50/75 years, and leisure-focussed ones too have grown almost exponentially

Some of you "Con" party lot really do like to push the proper-gander don't you, I shall return this afternoon to join this debate with some relevant and eminently sensible solutions, and not CP proper-gander!... Bet you can't wait eh? -):

You can only have leisure industries if there is employment to give people to spend on leisure. There aren't any new industries that can give mass employment.

stan - you're just being an ass - quelle surprise!
i wasn't asked for a solution
i merely commented on sticky's (and now yours) blindly prejudiced posting

Hays,

Post 31948

You are catching up.

Have a look at Bertrand Russell's "In Praise of Laziness".

I agree with the first 2 and 1/2 paragraphs, but do not think the outcome you perceive as the only outcome possible.

But now I can understand why you seem to have a bleak view of the world.

===

I think that there is not enough thought about what are the goals of "production and raising outputs" and what is necessary for a functioning society and how daily allotment of individual hours "should" be "allotted".

Perhaps, more into "servicing" of "society".

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Cynic,

Once more I think you are projecting your own attributes once again.

I would suggest you look in a mirror and and repeat a few times "you totally blinkered by prejudice" and notice yourself nodding your head.

whatever you say fred ...... speaking from your pontiff's padded armchair, you must of course be correct - well i'm sure that a few would concur anyway

The world is substantialmy different now. The process of jobs disappearing due to technology is very fast and accelerating. A major difference in recent years is the moving the production of goods to developing countries. China has seen what is coming and are investing in Africa at a great pace. They are also renting and buying great swathes of land in Africa and South America where they are beginning to produce food. Food and water will be as important as natural resources in the future and will represent a currency.

Cynic.

You seem to be obtaining a grasp of reality at last.

Grasp on to it firmly and hold it close.

You never know what is around the corner.