Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Max for a kick off, one word is missed in the intial post and secondly it wasnt Fred who started the dabate on Mitchell it was me.

Yep its petty .........best forgotten but I dare bet Hays had some kind of ale last night. LOL.

As for hays saying its OK to swear at police officers.

Jesus, now come on, what sort of society do you really want.

Its bad enough people swearing at each other, its about time MANNERS were taught at home again.

ps, what were you drinking last night hays.

"You obviously still do not understand it."

Oh please, do grow up H/S my case is proven despite your ridiculous excuses.

GF.

Thanks for correction, but I agree with sentiment of the post.

------------

Generally swearing and cursing does not "worry" me and my flow of language can often be very descriptive of an individual's forebears. But, strangely I dislike hearing swearing on the TV as humour or as general punctuation in plays. (Although, I can see an outburst as funny.)

However, in the Mitchell affair I see it as an arrogant attempt by a disgruntled Mitchell to intimidate and appear authoritative to the police officers concerned, and "telling" them their place in comparison to himself. It could be constructed as "threatening" intimidation and is covered in law.


(I.e he was one of the governing class, not one of the public.)

(The police seemed to acting to rules, but I suspect that there may have been previous similar minor "confrontations" or "disagreements" before the reported event.)

To me, it was a minor abuse of public office by Mitchell. I expect that if he had had the grace to apologise at the time, it would have blown over.

He didn't, he dug in and cost the TAX PAYER over half a million pounds for his conceit.

The police, if they falsified evidence (by summarising) should be reprimanded, Mitchell should give a public apology and all should "move on".

I think it was due to the police being intentionally difficult in making Mitchell use a different gate with his bicycle. The police are there to guard and assist members of the government. They were behaving like many officious people in positions of power where they dream up various minor rules such as that gate is for this purpose or that gate us unavailable at certain times.

Nothing excuses the police for fabricating evidence and hopefully heads will roll.

Hays,

Do you think Mitchell's accounts are the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

I still see him as being abusive and arrogance, when a little humility might have served him more wisely.

=======================


There appears to be many edited accounts of Maggie Thatcher’s “No such thing as society” outpourings. You may have your own version. I was lucky enough not to witness the original production.

However, the “sentiment” which was interpreted from her “utterances” was grabbed by the “media” and many of the tory party echelons as meaning it is “oneself” or extended to “one selves” that count. The meaning can be extended to “we who have” count and the others the “have nots” or “the dependent” do not.

Many of the party’s various echelons adopting the sentiment, to justify their political ideology and policies.


As a adherent of Thatcher’s ideology, have a read of the article


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/02/iain-duncan-smith-tories-useful-idiot

"He can't tell the truth, yet the right needs Iain Duncan Smith
Let's not forget that his blustering and blundering leads to a great deal of human suffering



Men lie for many reasons: to boost their ego, to hide their failings and to advance their ambitions. The sole impressive characteristic of Iain Duncan Smith – the winch that lifts him out of his otherwise incurable mediocrity – is his ability to lie for every reason imaginable, even when he knows his audience must find him out. If he told me that two plus two made four, I'd ask for a second opinion."

I do think Mitchell was telling the truth. Why does it matter if he was arrogant? Plenty of people are arrogant and don't expect to have evidence fabricated against them. Since when is a lack of humility a reason to 'fit up' someone?

Hays,

Your posting:-

"Haystack Send an email to Haystack View Haystack's profile - 04 Nov 2013 10:53 - 32137 of 32137

I do think Mitchell was telling the truth. Why does it matter if he was arrogant? Plenty of people are arrogant and don't expect to have evidence fabricated against them. Since when is a lack of humility a reason to 'fit up' someone?"

This appears to me to be similar attitude being shown by the tory element of the present coalition government and one of the reason I hope for their demise.

Reverse the roles and try to empathise just a little, or even a use a little Gestalt technique for after the next election there will be quite a lot of unoccupied seats at party HQ.

Do you not think Labour politicians are not arrogant? It would be better if Mitchell was polite, but it hardly matters that much. It looks like a typical confrontation between someone who was a bit stroppy with someone determined to be officious.

I don't know why people on here waste their time replying to Fred , he get's a perverted pleasure in getting peoples backs up , and you are just feeding his perversion. Don't reply to him .

Don't be a "prairie hat" all your life.

More bad news for Labour

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24799507

UK 'fastest-growing Western economy'

Hays,

Yes, labour and Lib/dem have their share of arrogant members, but it would seem to a lesser degree


Even admit to be arrogant myself especially when I was working and preoccupied.

Generally, I was prepared to apologised, when or if it was pointed out to me.

Also, I am told by my wife I have more than my fair share of other faults.

Haystack

Post 32142

“More bad news for Labour”

No, I think the majority of labour supporters will more than happy for the UK and the public, for the fore-casted improvement in the economy, if it is achieved and sustained.

The coalition should have introduced sensible policies at the beginning of their period as in office, rather approximately 6-9 months ago, when they started to understand the messages they were receiving, the recovery would have been earlier and stronger.

They missed opportunities and wasted a two and half year period, by trying to introduced brilliant policies, which, of course, they U-turned on shortly afterwards, as the ideas hadn’t thought out.

To add insult to injury they are making the tax payers and public foot the bills of their misconceived ideology.


Just for example, consider the ill-thought Lansley changes in the NHS before the put a Hunt in his place.

I hope it is a mild winter.

But remember few are insulated from the NHS in cases of emergencies as the Private Health Insurance systems don’t provide that service for the majority of their clients.

Also, remember Cameron has been captain of the ship for almost 3 years!


Have a look.

“Top doctors warn of 'worst winter' in hospitals as A&E crisis grows”


Waiting times already a cause of 'grave concern' as logjam causes a potential tipping point for NHS

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/nov/02/winter-hospitals-crisis-nhs-warning

Official data shows a 43% rise in the numbers waiting more than four hours in A&E departments compared with two years ago. Photograph: Graeme Robertson/Getty Images
Leading accident and emergency doctors have warned of a winter crisis in the National Health Service as official data shows a 43% rise in the numbers waiting more than four hours in A&E departments compared with two years ago.

The NHS figures also reveal an 89% leap in the number of "trolley waits" of four to 12 hours when data for September is compared with September 2011.

That gate Hays keeps mentioning, it was well known by all MPs including Mitchel himself that it was off bounds to them.

He was trying a quick flanker on and failed. And then being the pratt he is hit out like a little kid caught.

Aldwick just because you dont follow Freds brand of politics doesnt mean he shouldnt be listened to.

I personaly enjoy reading his posts just as I do reading Hays posts and Cynics when hes not being silly.

Is there a stalker about?

All IN IT TOGETHER..........

Hundreds of MPs are claiming expenses for heating their second homes. One MP, the millionaire Conservative Nadhim Zahawi, claimed £5,822 in 12 months to power and heat his £1m home. Minister Alan Duncan, who described Ed Miliband's proposed fuel price freeze as “stupid”, claimed £4,000 for energy bills. Sunday Mirror

The gate is not off bounds to MPs. The gate in question is the main gate and is opened for vehicles. Both gates are secured. He was riding a bicycle at the time, which is a vehicle and he wanted to exit via the main gate. He was told to use the other gate, which is for pedestrians. It was just as easy for the police to open either gate at they both needed to be opened just enough to let a bicycle through. It was just bloody mindedness on the part of the police. The police are the diplomatic protection squad and not traffic police. They are there to protect and help the MPs.

you're right sticky and i'm glad you're not pointing your finger at just one side of the house

Yes it was the main gate, cycles not allowed.

Rule are rules. Mitchel is not above the law.

And another question if he felt he was innocent why did he not report the incident to the relevant body???????????????????????????????????????????????

forgot the name of them now but it was queried on Sky News yesterday.