Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

When was the pre-election EU vote promise made?

Before the election.

But it got modified.

Europe

The Conservative party supports "an open, flexible Europe"

Specific European Union policies include:
A full opt-out from the Charter of Fundamental Rights
Greater protection against EU encroachment
Restoring national control over social and employment legislation


Specific education policies include:

Raising the entry requirement for taxpayer-funded primary teacher training
Requiring new graduates to have at least a 2:2 in their degree to get state-funded training
Paying the student loan repayments for top maths and science graduates while they remain teachers
Giving teachers the strongest possible protection from false accusations
Strengthening home-school behaviour contracts
Establishing a simple reading test at the age of six
Reforming the National Curriculum
Overhauling Key Stage 2 tests and league tables
Allowing all state schools to offer high quality international examinations
Giving parents the power to save schools threatened by closure
Extra funding for children from disadvantaged backgrounds
Providing 10,000 university places this year, paid for by giving graduates incentives to pay back their loans early

They forgot to mention raising uni fee's.

Cleggy's last of the summer wine is getting nearer

Economy

"A Conservative government will act now on debt to get the economy moving. We will deal with the deficit more quickly than Labour, so that mortgage rates stay lower for longer with the Conservatives."


Key economic policies include:

A one year public sector pay freeze in 2011 (excluding the one million lowest paid workers)
Bringing forward the date at which the state pension age starts to rise to 66, although it will not be sooner than 2016 for men and 2020 for women
Stopping tax credits to families with incomes over £50,000
Cutting spending on Child Trust Funds for all but the poorest third of families and families with disabled children
Capping the biggest public sector pensions above £50,000
A five per cent pay cut for Ministers followed by a five-year freeze, and a 10 per cent reduction in the number of MPs
Reduce welfare dependency

Hays said..........Haystack- 05 Nov 2013 18:09 - 32243 of 32250

A big difference between telling lies and being wrong. I still see no lies. ........ends.

Hays so now your saying Camoron is an illiterate numpty who didnt lie on all those occasions but just tradgicaly got it wrong each time............ now come on Hays PULL THE OTHER ONE.

You have the facts completely wrong regarding the referendum. THere was going to be a EU Constitutional treaty and in 2004 18 countries ratified it. In 2005 the French and the Dutch voters rejected it so the treaty was dead. The Labour government had promised a referendum similar the French and Dutch ones. Labour did not have one because the treaty collapsed. A new treaty almost exactly the same came along in around 2008 called the Lisbon treaty. Brown tried to get out of the referendum by saying it was not the same treaty although 98% was the same. The Irish held a referendum and rejected the treaty. They held the referendum again later and this time they said yes. The Czech Republic held up the treaty for months and only signed it in November 2009.

Cameron said he would hold a referendum on the treaty if elected. The treaty was finally signed into law on 1 December 2009. One of the clauses that Brown had agreed to was giving up individual countries' vetos. This meant that when the Conservatives won the election 5 months later, it was then impossible to have a referendum to reject Lisbon or modify it.

And that is why Cameron did not have a referendum.

The new referendum for the next parliament is different as it will be an in/out choice.

It is never impossible for a sovereign country to reject or modify a treaty!

Your last line confirms this!

But you must have fathomed out by now MK that this "Con" Government do seem constantly to need someone or something to blame to deflect their own bent conduct surely.

Its not a conservative government Stan, and that's the problem.

You are wrong. It is not possible to modify the Lisbon treaty as Brown gave away that ability. Prior to that we had the power to reject and make amendments to the treaty. We now only have the option of leaving the EU. That is why Cameron is trying to amend the treaty through talks that will get enough backing within the EU.

Here is an example of how this is impossible

Gordon Brown rejects German call to make changes to Lisbon treaty
EU leaders embroiled in row after Angela Merkel points to flaws in European charter

Friday 26 March 2010 19.30 GMT

European leaders were embroiled today in a row over whether to reopen the ill-fated Lisbon treaty discussions, only four months after the EU's new rule book came into force.

While the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, pointed to flaws that could only fixed by revisiting Lisbon, Gordon Brown insisted that there was no appetite in Europe for reopening the charter, after nine gruelling years of argument about getting it adopted.

A two-day EU summit in Brussels ended with Merkel announcing that treaty changes were inevitable and Brown declaring them inconceivable.

Merkel appeared isolated, but nonetheless in a strong position after dictating the terms of a rescue plan for Greece aimed at forestalling its financial collapse and destabilising the euro.

She was feted today at home as Germany's "iron chancellor" and Europe's new Margaret Thatcher, after securing agreement against the odds on a rescue deal for Greece, but on the toughest of terms determined by Berlin. Her hard line is playing well at home, but stirring complaints about a new "German hegemony" in Europe.

Berlin, which will shoulder the greater cost of bailing out Greece if push comes to shove, appears bent on establishing a new system of penalties and sanctions aimed at preventing the recurrence of a Greece-style financial emergency among the 16 countries using the euro.

To obtain complete risk insurance, Merkel said the Lisbon treaty would need to be changed. The rules for deterring and punishing fiscal profligacy were inadequate, she said. "If the treaties are not right, we can't say we don't want to do anything for 10 years."

That directly contradicted Brown, who has repeatedly said that after the Lisbon treaty there should be no more institutional changes in the EU for at least a decade.

Merkel has called for new rules to allow the expulsion of a country from the single currency if need be, and for the establishment of a European monetary fund. Both would need major changes in EU law.

José Manuel Barroso, the president of the European commission, and Herman van Rompuy, the president of the European council, are known to be sceptical about revisiting the Lisbon treaty, which many liken to opening a Pandora's box.

The summit put Van Rompuy in charge of a "taskforce" that is to report by the end of the year on how the rules governing the single currency might be tightened.

One senior European official said no one but Merkel wanted to reopen the Lisbon treaty, a process that requires the agreement of all 27 EU governments.

Another senior official was worried about the potential impact in Britain and Europe if the Conservative party leader, David Cameron, were to win the general election, because Cameron could use reopening the treaty to trigger a major crisis by holding a referendum in Britain.

"There are doubts," said the senior official when asked about the Lisbon question. "There are member states that will reopen other issues. I know in Britain that the party that is ahead in the polls would like to open discussions."

Senior sources said that Merkel sought, but failed, to insert language into today's summit communique on the possible need to reopen the treaty. She won some support from President Nicolas Sarkozy of France, who said that the sanctions for destabilising the single currency were not fit for purpose.

Brown challenged the German chancellor on the issue and claimed broad support. "This was not just the British government, but the European council [summit] that didn't want to see institutional or constitutional change over the next few years," said Brown.

The important part of the above is this

Another senior official was worried about the potential impact in Britain and Europe if the Conservative party leader, David Cameron, were to win the general election, because Cameron could use reopening the treaty to trigger a major crisis by holding a referendum in Britain.

And that is why Cameron could not hold a referendum as it needs all 27 countries to agree to amend the treaty. Prior to Brown and the Lisbon treaty, it was not required that all 27 should agree.

MaxK
You can't have a Conservative government with a coalition. Cameron's hands are tied. The trouble is that we are not used to having a coalition government where our favoured party cannot do what they really want. The Conservatives and the Libs are getting a lot of stick from their supporters as they don't get the policies that they want.

I am not sure what you expect from a Conservative government.

Twaddle!

He could hold a referendum tomorrow if he wanted. (ok, a couple of months time)

The Libs would howl and screetch, but what could they do?

To go against would destroy them.

What would the referendum be on? It would have to be and 'in or out' vote. Cameron's view is that we should attempt to attempt to get a better deal from the EU and then offer that or 'out' to the voters. That represents a better choice. A vote now would be a choice between 'out' or accepting the EU exactly as it is.

The Libs could screetch and howl and they could vote it down with Labour's help.

Well after all that huff an puff there won't be a referendum as Cameron chances of an winning the next election are dismal for tory followers and he doesn't want out anyway and will make excuses if it came to it and pressure for staying in the EU with all the bits and pieces.

I think Ed and majority of Labour party are for a more integrated Europe and will avoid a referendum and if the tie up with the remnants of the Lib/dems they will a working majority.

Well after all that huff an puff there won't be a referendum as Cameron chances of an winning the next election are dismal for tory followers and he doesn't want out anyway and will make excuses if it came to it and pressure for staying in the EU with all the bits and pieces.

I think Ed and majority of Labour party are for a more integrated Europe and will avoid a referendum and if the tie up with the remnants of the Lib/dems they will a working majority.

"Its not a conservative government Stan, and that's the problem." I'm afraid it is Max as far as going back to the early 80's tactics is concerned, which is what this lot are up to now.