Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

I took the max lump sum from my final salery penison and my pension is index linked up to 5% , what would happen if in the future inflation went to 10 to 15% , I thought if it was a company pension the index was safe.

Labour will loose just as many votes to UKIP as the con/clegg party

Cynic and Hays.

As you probably guessed, I have been a European internationalist since I was a student and hoped that the Britain would integrate itself fully into the European Union as a political and economic member, without renouncing its relationships to the rest of the world.

I still think this would be for the benefit of Britain and Europe as a whole.

However, with the continued posturing and protectionism portrayed by various UK governments over the last 50 very odd years I can see Europe moving on with its continued slow move to greater integration and mutual responsibilities, leaving the UK moving further and further on the outside and isolated, scrambling to have any international relevance. (Even with a population of 70million.)

The Europhobic elements of all both major parties continuous snide, sniping remarks about Europe will hasten that process.

If you had a team and a member wanted only to be a part time member only and constantly wining about their membership fee, then threatening not to play the next season or the shape of the ball I think the other members would tell that part time member to push off.

That is what appears to be happening. Europe doesn’t need Britain, Britain benefits from Europe.

I am not saying negotiation and review of short term and long term goals are not needed.

All big and small organisation need constant review and modifications of rules to achieve their "best".


Not saying some of the reviews of regulations are not warranted, but suggest that beneficial changes are more likely to occur when those are negotiating, do so for the benefit of Europe as a whole and not their own individual little countries.

I doubt that there will be a referendum in favour of leaving the EU. Cameron, knows that it would be a disaster, if Britain opted out and I believe Milliband and the majority of the Lib/Dems are pro-European.

=============
The following story fits the scene for me:

"A holy man was having a conversation with the Lord one day and said, "Lord, I would like to know what Heaven and Hell are like."

The Lord led the holy man to two doors.

He opened one of the doors and the holy man looked in.. In the middle of the room was a large round table. In the middle of the table was a large pot of stew, which smelled delicious and made the holy man's mouth water.

The people sitting around the table were thin and sickly. They appeared to be famished. They were holding spoons with very long handles that were strapped to their arms and each found it possible to reach into the pot of stew and take a spoonful. But because the handle was longer than their arms, they could not get the spoons back into their mouths.

The holy man shuddered at the sight of their misery and suffering.

The Lord said, "You have seen Hell."

They went to the next room and opened the door.. It was exactly the same as the first one. There was the large round table with the large pot of stew which made the holy man's mouth water. The people were equipped with the same long-handled spoons, but here the people were well nourished and plump, laughing and talking. The holy man said, "I don't understand."

It is simple," said the Lord. "It requires but one skill. You see they have learned to feed each other, while the greedy think only of themselves."

fred - so in the event of a referendum on EU, would you vote?

=============

hell
you're wrong as usual ....
it was a pork and clam cataplana and the room was full of vegans, vegetarians, muslims and jews :-)

Yes or no answer required Fred - would you vote? :-)

I am afraid that silly stories just remind me of the Bible's stories and the use of controlling people it was and is put to.

don't be so sniffy!
it's just a fun little parable that might just have easily have come from aesop

Yep stop being so straight and stuffy hays, lighten up a bit, Im sure youve got a pleasant personality but you dont show it, relax a little more and let the normal you come out of the hat.

Hays what you are forgetting is that the Euro elections ARE SO CLOSE to the general election this time and Im sure their will be a beneficial lap over for UKIP.

ps, by the way your team spurs were sh-te last night.....light weights.

sticky - are you giving odds that your m8 fred wouldn't even get off his arse to vote in an EU referendum?

Nah, its up to the individual.

As far as Im concerned Im fed up of folk making other folk do things they dont want to do. Its becoming a National pastime in this country and is a pain in the ass, not that Ive ever had a pain in the ass mind.

F F Sake society in general leave others alone do do what THEY want to do and not what you perceive they should do.

Now Ive said that Cyners I insist you jump off the edge of that 2000 foot cliff...lol. wink.

it's just that fred was waxing lyrical about the benefits of the EU etc etc, so i reckoned it was a fair question

UKIP will do well in the EU elections as it is a proportional system. If we had a proportional system then UKIP would get maybe 15% of the MPs. But we have first past the post so they will get zero. You only have to look at the experience of the Libs to see the problem. They got large percentages of the vote over the years, but never make a breakthrough in terms of numbers of MPs.

Well you can still debate without voting. Nothing wrong with that.

I dont vote in my local council elections because theirs no point in it.

I live on the very edge of a boundary where most people are muslims. The brothers all vote for their brother the liberal, BUT previously to this he was a conservative and defected and they all voted again for him.

So whats the point in me going out to vote tory when i know its just a waste of time, might aswel bray my head against a brick wall.

DB,

For what?

========

Hays.

When many realise that they are atheists, it gives them the freedom to consider their own morality and allows them freedom to attempt to choose they own morality and lifestyle.

Some it excuses them to go one way and while others may chose a different one. Many modify their stances, goals a modify modus operandi in response to experiences throughout their life.

Without absolute points of reference, i.e. the position of an atheist, it seems difficult to consider which individual’s choices may be right, or wrong.

“Bible's stories and the use of controlling people it was and is put to.”

I don’t know many, but some possibly trying to give people a possibly different understanding of a problem, which allows the formation of a different model of understanding and allow for different behaviours or reactions..
(Modelling)

Giving people chances to look at situations, or problems in a different ways is not controlling, it can be liberating by giving them alternate ways of considering problems.

It is also challenging, and allowing for reconsideration of previous stances.

Also, in general the majority of religions seem to me tend to prefer or advocate a harmonious life for all, rather than what is good for one, or a small group.

Unfortunately, too often it is an individual or small group of individuals who abuse the religion for their own advantages by using it to control others. (Is your form of toryism a belief system, or a religion? Or are your beliefs based on crude Darwinism?)


Reminds me of the epitaph on an atheist’s grave.

Here lies an atheist
All dressed up,
And no place to go

Cynic,

I doubt that I will vote in any election.

But nothing is certain, other than death!

8-)

Ahhhhhhhhhh but Hays you are forgetting about possible defections from Tory to UKIP and a lot of voters will stay loyal to the person not the party and a snowball could develop.

Dont think it cant happen because their have been certain rumblings already and we are quite a way off the euro elections.

We had defections from Labour to the SDP. Where are they now as a party? They are buried in the Libs. UKIP is in even a worse position than the SDP. The SDP had cabinet level defeated and household names with track records and good experience of government. It is very difficult to change the mould of UK politics especially as UKIP is a one policy party with no experience.

Here lies an atheist
All dressed up,
And no place to go

So there is no Hell then ? unless you are forced to read Fred's long winded replys over and over again.