Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

They could hold a referendum next month if they wanted to.

They don't want to, that's the long and short of it!

HAYS Hays Hays....the trend is with labour.............

electionista‏@electionista2h
UK - YouGov/Sunday Times poll:

CON 30%
LAB 38%
LDEM 10%
UKIP 15%

This profile suit anyone here, answers on a postcard..........

Dave Camoron‏@EtonOldBoys
Are you an arrogant pompous liar, totally out of touch with everyone? Yes? Then why not join the Tory Party, #votetory

not so MK insofar as there is a lot of (collaborative) renegotiation discussion already in hand with the germans and french etc ....... if a decent or at least acceptable formula can be reached there - and there's a reasonable chance it will be - then the outcome of a referendum may well not turn out as ukip (and you?) might wish

i could write further, but surely not needed

The reason for holding in 2017 instead of now is due to the proposition being offered at the time. Cameron wants an intervening period to renegotiate the terms and offer that as the alternative to leaving the EU. Cameron is not in favour of leaving the EU. He will use the referendum as a lever to get better terms.

He will use the referendum as a lever to get better terms.
neither france nor germany want uk to opt out, so exactly and quite rightly so

only muppety morons would want a referendum at this juncture

UKIP leader Nigel Farage argues in a piece for The Telegraph that David Cameron’s EU strategy is doomed to fail. He is right. As Farage notes, “the Prime Minister thinks he is on an EU ship heading west, but in fact he is strolling westwards on board a ship that is heading east to “ever closer union.” Farage goes on to say, quite accurately: “It is also about time that the pro-European establishment of this country was honest with us. There will be no change in our relationship with the EU before, during or after Mr Cameron’s futile “renegotiations”. The EU knows this, Mr Cameron knows this – and the people of this country need to know this too.”

Mr. Farage’s op-ed coincides with an interview (which he references) given to The Telegraph by the President of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso, who outlines in stark terms the huge opposition to Cameron’s re-negotiation strategy within the Brussels establishment.

In Barroso’s words:

"Britain wants to again consider the option of opting out. Fine, let's discuss it but to put into question the whole acquis of Europe is not very reasonable," he said,

"What is difficult, or even impossible, is if we go for the exercise of repatriation of competences because that means revising the treaties and revision means unanimity. From my experience of 10 years, I don't believe it will work."

… "I am for a stronger EU not a weaker EU, he said. It is important we do this exercise in a pragmatic way avoiding what I call theological discussions about competences. Our approach is not an ideological one. It is not about weakening the EU. It is not about giving up on integration or on ever closer union."


David Cameron talks of taking “powers back from Europe,” but this is delusional grandstanding. The European Project, as Mr. Barroso declares, is heading in only one direction – towards further economic and political integration. (It will eventually fail, but not before the architects of ‘ever closer union’ drive it to breaking point.)


The full article is here: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100239813/nigel-farage-is-right-about-the-eu-david-camerons-renegotiation-plan-is-pure-grandstanding/

It smacks of desperation on Farage's part. If Cameron does not get a better deal from the EU then the country can vote to leave the EU. If we vote to stay in then that is also the will of the people. Farage is not in favour of a referendum, he just wants to leave.

Why do you persist with the fiction that call me dave will honour his pledges?

Because he wants to improve the terms of our EU membership.I am sure that after discussions he will hold a referendum. The party that reneged on a referendum is the Labour party.

It matters little what Farage wants or suggests. He won't get enough seats to have his way. He needs to get more than 20% of the vote to get just 7 seats. That pretty much rules out any power he might have in the future. He may improve from where he is now but the demographics are against him. There have been several polls and each one has found that there are approximately 40% of people who say they would never vote UKIP. With areas that are determinedly Labour, Conservative and Lib it leaves very little left over for UKIP.

Spingtime for €uroland...




Spanish government approves draft law cracking down on demonstrations

Campaigners criticise legislation as attempt to muzzle protests against government's handling of economic crisis


Associated Press in Madrid


The Guardian, Sunday 1 December 2013 13.48 GMT



Demonstrators protest against the new Spanish anti-protest law in Madrid. Photograph: Paul White/AP


Spain has approved draft legislation for fines of up to €30,000 (£25,000) for offences such as burning the national flag, insulting the state or causing serious disturbances outside parliament.

Opposition parties, judicial and social groups have heavily criticised the bill as an attempt by the conservative government to muzzle protests against its handling of the severe economic crisis.

The measures, presented by the interior minister Jorge Fernández Díaz to update a 1992 law, also include fines of up to €1,000 for insulting or threatening police officers during demonstrations. Similar fines are planned for disseminating photographs of police officers that endanger them or police operations.

Spanish cities have experienced weekly protests, the vast majority of them peaceful, since the start of the crisis in 2008.

The conservative Popular party took office with Mariano Rajoy as prime minister in 2011 and issued a series of austerity measures and cutbacks in health and education and labour and financial reforms in an effort to refloat the economy and stave off a bailout.

The measures triggered an increase in street protests, including several attempts to encircle parliament, some of which ended in clashes with police and rubbish containers being set on fire.

"When more than 20% of people are unemployed, I don't think this legislation is what we require," said Alejandro Touriño, partner and information specialist at the law firm Ecija.



more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/01/spanish-government-approves-law-demonstrations

can't be bothered to read the burble above, as it's 99% certainly predictable

if cameron fails to renegotiate a deal with eu that is acceptable to the general public, then a referendum will vote against staying in - or something close to that

however, to walk away from eu without even trying to renegotiate is just plain stupidity

do I think there should be a referendum on this?
yes
does the labour party?
seemingly not - i'm not sure if they even want to get their hands dirty in trying to renegotiate
does ukip?
hahaha
lib/dems?
not sure what their stance is, but i'ld guess pro-referendum

Chancellor George Osborne pledged to reduce the average energy bill by around £50 each year by passing on the cost to the government, which it plans to pay for by its war on tax avoidance......................................ends

Not tax evasion then.

As Giddeon got something planned for thursday.!!!!!!!!!1

Struggling voters sniff something iffy in Maggie Thatcher’s house
2 Dec 2013 07:01

Politics columnist Kevin Maguire says it is Labour's two Eds who are speaking to Mr and Mrs Bloggs while the Conservatives list data

The £12million London home Margaret Thatcher lived in for 20 years reinforces the Conservatives as the party of the privileged.

Either she’s dodged £5million inheritance tax, money that could’ve covered the cost of the former Tory Premier’s gun carriage funeral.

Or a footloose and largely tax-free mysterious benefactor let her live in a house in Belgravia owned through an anonymous trust in a Caribbean treasure island exploited by the super rich.

Maggie Thatcher the Milk Snatcher ending her days as Maggie Thatcher the Tax Dodger would be embarrassing for the Cons.

Embarrassing too if Thatcher lived off the immoral earnings of a tax avoider, a wealthy benefit tourist who enjoys the benefits of Britain without paying for them by hiding house deeds thousands of miles away.

Yet it is Labour’s two Eds, Miliband and Balls, rather than her political children, David Cameron and George Osborne, who’ve learned the most important non-partisan lesson of Thatcher’s reign.

That is to speak in plain language about the everyday issues confronting voters.

Miliband and Balls capture the attention of voters by focusing on the cost of living and energy bills, falling living standards high on the agenda of
every family.

Cameron and Osborne might as well be chatting between themselves when they boast of rising GDP.

Have you ever seen GDP in a shop? I haven’t. But pushing my trolley in Asda on Saturdays I’ve seen the prices of bread and eggs increase. And I’m braced to pay more this winter for my gas and electricity.

Osborne on Thursday will sound like a party propagandist in 1930s Stalinist Russia inventing booming pig iron output figures as he reels off ­structural deficits and growth percentages.

The Chancellor’s statistics and talk of an economic recovery will fly over the nation’s head because they are alien to real lives.

The Tory posh boy’s ritual ­reference to “hardworking people” will similarly fail to connect because people working hard know they’re getting poorer, not better off.

ConDem austerity is a catastrophic failure on its own terms.

Osborne’s borrowed more in three-and-a-half years than Labour did in 13 years.

Instead of balancing the books he’ll go into the election adding £100billion a year to the £1.3trillion national debt.

Balls was proved right, downgraded Osborne wrong, when austerity tax rises and spending cuts choked the life out of the recovery.

Cons who protest the double dip recession never happened – it was avoided by a whisker – miss the point.

Boy George would be obese if he’d eaten a slice of humble pie every time a ­forecast bombed.

Political fortunes swung when Labour spoke to Mr and Mrs Bloggs while the Cons listed data.

Struggling voters sniff something iffy in Maggie’s house.

And they won’t be conned by a couple of Thatcher’s children out of touch with the country.



Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/kevin-maguire-margaret-thatcher-milk-2874639#ixzz2mIxiwtiP
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

This from a real right winger, things must be getting bad for the Tories........

and its the real David Buik.

David Buik ‏@truemagic68
Is a £50 cut for a family's energy bill the real business? It strikes me as political posturing! - Not even the price of Racing Post per day...........................ends


what he doesnt mention and neither do fat Dave or Giddeon is that this years increase as already happened their policy will just take in just one winter in 2014.

Will anybody be held to account for this?



Hunger-striking asylum seeker Isa Muaza back in UK after botched removal in private jet



Cahal Milmo


Sunday 01 December 2013



Lawyers for a gravely-ill Nigerian hunger striker are to make a fresh attempt to halt his deportation after he endured a botched removal from Britain involving a 20-hour flight on a private jet hired at a cost of up to £110,000.



Isa Muaza, who has refused food for 100 days and is said to be near death, was flown out of the country on Friday morning after last-ditch legal applications failed but was returned to Britain on Saturday after the Nigerian authorities apparently refused the plane permission to land.

The extraordinary flight, which brings the cost of dealing with Mr Muaza’s case to an estimated £200,000, resulted in the private jet hired from a charter company making a two-hour stop in Malta amid reports of a dispute over landing rights before it flew back to Luton airport in Bedfordshire.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hungerstriking-asylum-seeker-isa-muaza-back-in-uk-after-botched-removal-in-private-jet-8975983.html

Yes Mark... I blame Tanker.

John Cleese sums some things up:

"John Cleese: Alerts to threats in 2012 Europe

The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent events in Syria and have therefore raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon, though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross." The English have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies nearly ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorized from "Tiresome" to "A Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was in 1588, when threatened by the Spanish Armada.

The Scots have raised their threat level from "Pissed Off" to "Let's get the Bastards." They don't have any other levels. This is the reason they have been used on the front line of the British army for the last 300 years.

The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Collaborate" and "Surrender." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France 's white flag factory, effectively paralysing the country's military capability.

Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."

The Germans have increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose."

Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual; the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels.

The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.

Australia, meanwhile, has raised its security level from "No worries" to "She'll be alright, Mate." Two more escalation levels remain: "Crikey! I think we'll need to cancel the barbie this weekend!" and "The barbie is cancelled." So far no situation has ever warranted use of the last final escalation level.

-- John Cleese - British writer, actor and tall person A final thought -“ Greece is collapsing, the Iranians are getting aggressive, and Rome is in disarray. Welcome back to 430 BC."