Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

while that is true, you may then ask yourself why there is such huge (and prob illegal) immigration, which in itself is causing the SA economy huge problems - e.g. the tax-paying population is minuscule

the answer is actually very simple
though to our eyes, the conditions in the slums are grim (ditto india), those who flood into SA consider the conditions (far) better than whence they came

O/Topic...... Doodlebug, dont let that poster ontheturn bully you. Give him a kick in the gonads.

Ive switched you back on temporarily and I can see that the chap is rather ignorant. Im with you on trafalgar well not the stock but your conduct. Dont stand for it.

Fred
What happened in the past cannot be a legacy.bThe reality is that SA is becoming like the rest of Africa.

You're not allowed to say that.

Or indeed here in some ways H/S, I.E. a race to the bottom "for some".

Hazyone,

It is part of Africa.

It is a little like saying the UK is becoming like Europe.

It is and the culture of UK is similar to the EU.

========

But I would admit SA has huge problems and the road to a true representative government and legal system.

Also, huge problems to introduce the necessary infrastructures for a civilised society.

They have had 19 years so far and probably need another 30-40 years of improvement to reduce "corruption" to a low level.

The UK and Europe, after "how long ?", still has its corrupt and misguided leaders.

Again I would not like to live through their coming turmoil.


“When we see others as the enemy, we risk becoming what we hate. When we oppress others, we end up oppressing ourselves. All of our humanity is dependent upon recognizing the humanity in others.”
― Desmond Tutu

The point is that SA is NOT improving. It is getting worse. Just look at the violence in clashes withe the miners. It is heading towards a dictatorship. The next thing will be Zuma fixing the ballots to stay in power.

you miss (at least) three major issues ....

1) the tax-paying population is barely growing and may even be shrinking, while the existing poor + uncontrolled immigration is growing hugely ...... how do you propose that all these impoverished families are ever going to be other than a drain on the economy? ..... in addition, there is thus a growing tinderbox for serious unrest


2) 10/15 years ago, SA had a thriving heavy engineering industry, but two very significant players (Consani and Fruehauf) went bankrupt and their machinery and intellectual property grabbed and "exported" by the Chinese .... there are now just 2 in this field, both of whom survive by making a "better product" and also because over the years they have engendered loyalty from their customer base who would rather pay a bit more than buy from the Chinese


3) with the gold price now significantly below its highs and likely to stay that way, marginal mines will now become unsustainable, thus further depleting the exchequer's take

Cynic,

Problems.

How do you surmount them?

----

I will come back.

----

But.

2) 10/15 years ago, SA had a thriving heavy engineering industry, but two very significant players (Consani and Fruehauf) went bankrupt and their machinery and intellectual property grabbed and "exported" by the Chinese ....




Is that going to be a similar result of "Chinese Investment" in the UK?

(One of Cameron's latest dream adventure."

After all, our investment in the colonies generally meant looting the country and sending the wealth to the UK. (Off shore now.)

---------------

I hope that Desmond is wrong.

“We learn from history that we don't learn from history!”
― Desmond Tutu


======

For Hazyone,

It is well known that shit floats to the surface more quickly than gold, but also shit when collected up and dug into the soil it makes it more nutritious and fertile.

Takes time and patience.


----------------

Is that going to be a similar result of "Chinese Investment" in the UK.
no ..... a totally different scenario which i won't bore you with

Message to the next person to visit Cape Town and go on the Robben Island trip to see where Mandela was imprisoned:

Please make a mental note to see if the Robben Island Tour Ticket tills at Cape Town's Victoria and Albert Wharf are still 'Temporarily Out of Order'.

This is 'small change' compared to some of the scams that are being perpetrated but those tills have been operated like that for at least the last 12 years. It's obvious to anyone with any common sense, that someone 'high up' is skimming the takings. If the tills are out of commission then there is no proof of the actual takings and those in charge of banking the money from this very popular tour can put down what figure they like.

Just like the 'high ups' who skim the takings from our hospital car parks!

So again, Why do you lot keep voting them in if you're so dissatisfied?

Was that question directed to me, Stan?

for me, because i think they're the least worst and unlike fawlty-fred, i believe we all have an obligation to vote

How London would have looked without the Thames barrier

WOW frightening.

good news - it took out lots of immigrants and benefits claimants ..... what would you be complaining about? :-)

DB4, It was directed to whoever those are who point out abuses of the last 35 years or so, yet persistently keep voting for them.