Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

as i said, your postings totally lack objectivity and thought .... they merely mouth the rantings and polemic of your chosen extremist faction

Why should I be objective? I have a viewpoint and it is from that viewpoint that I post. I have no interest in Israel's viewpoint as they are in control by virtue of superiopr force and it is they who abuse their power.

"Why should I be objective?"

Nobody could ever accuse you of that.

I'm pro-Israel but still recognize and condemn excesses. I don't have a blinkered view and strongly support a Palestinian state, as do many Israelis. In the end it's about slowly building mutual trust and respect. A genuine peace has to be built brick by brick to overcome the mutual distrust.
People like haymaker, fred, fahel and clubman simply perpetuate the ethos of hatred.........in their own pathetic way.
As for that cynic, I have zero regard for him since his remarks about poisoning Jews and Muslims with Zyclon B.

Cynic,

As with a few others when you have no constructive arguments against another person's views you resort to abuse.

As others have written, if you don't agree, frame an opposing argument.

If you object to others views, don't read them.

Personally, I don't agree with Haysacks on many things, but think he has a right to voice them, as long they are not abusive.

Unlike your contributions his contributions are informative usually not abusive.

=============

Like him, without the presence of Hamas at the negotiation table I can not see the attempts at the peace negotiation has a hope in hell.

I think Israel recognises this and surprised of the American administration doesn't realise it.

Perhaps they do, but hope to introduce Hamas leaders at a later date.

ITLOTB

It is Israel that perpetuates the hatred by their actions.

here we go again .... the rabid loonies start barking again ...... i thought to post the news release below, as much as anything because of the absense of polemic and other inflammatory nonsense ..... unfortunately, i guess i have to accept that asking you rabid dogs to read and learn from it is a bit like asking a great white shark to be a vegetarian

"US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has called for direct talks to resume to try to reach a peace deal in the Middle East.
America's top diplomat has invited Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahua and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to travel to Washington for a September 2nd meeting.

"There have been difficulties in the past, there will be difficulties ahead. .. I ask the parties to persevere, to keep moving forward even through difficult times and to continue working to achieve a just and lasting peace in the region," Clinton said in a statement.

The talks would be aimed at creating a Palestinian state.

The Quartet - the United States, the European Union, Russia and the United Nations - said in June that peace talks would be expected to conclude in 24 months, but the new draft says 12 months.

The Palestinian Authority government intends to have established all the attributes of statehood by mid-2011.

The peace process resumed in May after a hiatus of 19 months but stalled over the terms of an upgrade from indirect talks mediated by US envoy George Mitchell to direct negotiations.

Israel insists it is ready for direct talks provided there are no preconditions. The Palestinians are ready provided there is a clear agenda. Israel says an agenda means preconditions."

simples!

"Why should I be objective?"

says haycrapper.


Anybody who comes out with a statement like that demonstrates their total inability to form any judgment of any merit or validity.
It is the base matter of all hatreds, wars and injustices and shows a total disregard for humanity and suffering. It is the antithesis of the Judeo-Christian ethos of the West and of Hinduism, Sikhism, humanism, atheism and above all, basic human decency.
Objectivity is the pre-requisite of justice, fairness and living with other human beings.

It really is not surprising that haycrapper is not allowed to practice as the therapist he claims to be, even though he is not on any such professional register.
He is not a fit or proper person to practice any profession with ethics.

ITLOTB
It is not necessary to be objective. Show me an unbiased person and I will show you someone woth no opinions. I support the Palestinian side in this matter and have no support for Israel, which should not have existed at all. The only solution that is acceptable to the Palestinians would be for Israel to bend over backwards to agree to Palestinian requirements and to apologise for all the problems they have created.

ITLOB - you start absolutely correctly but then rather blow it .... absolutely one cannot make a valid judgement when blinded by prejudice ..... however, ethics or the lack of them has little connection with objectivity, or a lack of same.

assuredly israel has, at times, acted totally appallingly towards the general populace, effectively incarcerated in gaza ..... and hamas too has much to answer for, as one of its prime objectives is to destabilise and its pretence of defending the interests of the palestinians in gaza is far from convincing

assuredly the palestinians have a right to a homeland, but so does israel, but both of them have an obligation to live peaceably

israel unquestionably should stop encroaching further into the west bank, and indeed should almost certainly cede a large slab of that "illegally" seized land

israel should not prevent legitimate humanitarian aid reaching gaza .... on the other hand, hamas and its acolytes should be working towards getting that aid into gaza (yes, i know it will spoil their cash cow of the smuggling tunnels), instead of being as provocative as possible and refusing said aid if it is routed through israel.

This is a report from the UN and NOT from the Palestinians.
...................

The weekly report by the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) revealed an escalation of Israeli attacks in the occupied Palestinian lands over the week 11-17 August.

The report issued on Saturday said that the Israeli occupation forces (IOF) killed a Palestinian and wounded another in the Gaza Strip while ten others were injured in the West Bank.

It noted that the IOF troops launched 50 incursions in the West Bank in this week while five attacks by Zionist settlers against Palestinians or their property were recorded.

hayseed - i'm quite surprised you made no comment to my post above .... did you not feel it set out the field pretty fairly - and certainly without polemic and other unnecessary garbage?

cynic,
I agree with 80% of what you say in post 3410.

Ethics, imho, are related to right and wrong and decent behaviour. The latter is not possible without some degree of objectivity and being totally one sided - and proud of it as in haycrapper's demented philosophy - is being blind to suffering and injustice. It is extremely rare for there not to be shades of grey, however muted.
Lack of objectivity as lauded by haycrapper et al is intolerant, lacking in empathy and fascistic - which is why he, fred, clubman and fahel are Nazis at heart.
And why those gas comments of yours were so inappropriate.

This thread is threatening to rise above the base hatreds and prejudices of haycrapper et al. Such a development is pointless as it is beyond their comprehension.

Cynic

"hayseed - i'm quite surprised you made no comment to my post above"

I'm not.

Cynic.

From you I am surprised at the objectivity of your post;
"assuredly israel has, at times, acted totally appallingly towards the general populace, effectively incarcerated in gaza ..... and hamas too has much to answer for, as one of its prime objectives is to destabilise and its pretence of defending the interests of the palestinians in gaza is far from convincing

assuredly the palestinians have a right to a homeland, but so does israel, but both of them have an obligation to live peaceably

israel unquestionably should stop encroaching further into the west bank, and indeed should almost certainly cede a large slab of that "illegally" seized land

israel should not prevent legitimate humanitarian aid reaching gaza ...!"

Then realised that it wasn't constructed by you.

The chances of negotiations, without an agenda, realising anything useful is small.

Cynic
I do agree with most of your comments. There are obvious exceptions though.

fred et al - most of what i wrote is merely regurgitated from much earlier posts ..... as for the "agenda" it depends on whether israels' interpretation of such being preconditions is correct .... the only agenda should be a broadbrush comment that the purpose is how to achieve a workable peace

Shoe Bombers, crotch bombers, 9/11 and Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqFKhGHpvnQ

There is no point to these talks. Mahmoud Abbas has no support from the Palestinian people. He can't agree to anthing as there are too many other groups not invited to the talks. He has increasingly been behaving as a US puppet. Anyway, no deal is possible without Hams. It is all a waste of time and intended to boost Obama's and Netanyahu's popularity.

Descendents appeal to UN over latest Mamilla Cemetery demolitions
http://www.ccrjustice.org/newsroom/press-releases/descendents-appeal-un-over-latest-mamilla-cemetery-demolitions

as was pointed out to you Hayseed, as you admit to being blinded by prejudice, your comments have little or no value ..... you (wouldn't want to) remember that the talks in northern ireland also initially lacked one key party or another, but eventually all fell into line, and the peace now existing there, while being far from perfect, is pretty much universal .... assuredly the ordinary people want to live in peace, and it is a certainty that that applies similarly in israel and gaza ..... it's only the rabid dogs on both sides who wish to see the ferment and bloodshed continue