Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

courier drivers are TOLD the rate the will get .... if they don't like it, they can move and/or suffer discrimination from the traffic controller ..... to earn £7.00 ph nett, they'll have to work damn hard and that presupposes their office gives them the work ..... however, it is certainly true that if a driver is prepared to work 12 hours a day 6/7 days a week, he may well pick up £800-1,000 pw

by and large, zero hour contractees will not have much if anything by way of tax deductible expenses anyway, for surely they are predominantly office or warehouse centred

As far as I know, Zero hour workers pay tax and NI at source.

They will be lucky to clear £5 an hour.

i don't know if NI cuts in immediately, but of course PAYE does not
and surely, if NI is paid, then state benefits accrue whereas if you are self-employed they do not (i think)

NI is payable from the word go, there is no allowance before you start paying, only an upper limit.

I'm not sure how they work the tax angle, taking into account the variable hours worked and the tax code status of the individual worker.


But the two main points of this exercise is addressed as far as the gov is concerned.

1. A person is off the books as far as unemployment is concerned.

2. Business has a ready pool of labour at very low cost.

except that the biz has to pay NI too
that said, #1 is definitely true

with regard to #2, their are certainly companies who need a pool of labour on which they can draw in times of high demand - and of course the reverse - rather like outworkers in the clothing industry
that said, just as with self-employed, presumably those on zero hour contracts can also work for other companies at the same time
are these people low-cost?
no more so than the self-employed courier or shelf-stacker or similar

'Exclusivity deals' that stop zero-hours workers seeking other jobs face ban

Vince Cable will announce a crackdown on abuse of the controversial employment deals


Nicholas Watt, chief political correspondent

The Guardian, Thursday 19 December 2013



Cable will say: 'We don’t think that people should be tied exclusively to one employer if it unfairly stops them from boosting their income.' Photograph: David Cheskin/PA


Employers could be banned from preventing staff on zero-hours contracts from working elsewhere as part of a crackdown on abuse of the controversial deals, Vince Cable will announce on Wednesday.

A government consultation on zero-hours contracts, designed to prevent misuse by employers, will seek views on whether legislation should be introduced to ban so-called "exclusivity clauses".

Cable will say: "We don't think that people should be tied exclusively to one employer if it unfairly stops them from boosting their income when they are not getting enough work to earn a living.

"We also want to give employees and employers more guidance and advice on these types of employment contracts.

"Employers need flexible workforces and people should have the choice in how they work. But this shouldn't be at the expense of fairness and transparency."

The business secretary announced in his speech to the Liberal Democrat conference in September that he would act against "abusive practices in zero-hours contracts". He highlighted the unfairness of "exclusivity arrangements which prevent workers seeking alternatives, even when they are given no work".

Cable will say that he has no plans to ban zero-hours contracts, which can offer flexibility for some employees who have to look after children or people who want to top up monthly earnings. "We believe they have a place in today's labour market and are not proposing to ban them outright, but we also want to make sure that people are getting a fair deal," he said.


More self serving guff here: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/19/exclusivity-deals-zero-hours-contracts

Zero hour workers get a variety of rates of pay. There is no standard £7 per hour.

'Exclusivity deals' that stop zero-hours workers seeking other jobs face ban
Vince Cable will announce a crackdown on abuse of the controversial employment deals

=============

bloody good job
it's outrageous that a company should be permitted to force such a one-sided contract on their employees
whether or not it could be enforced in a court of law is another matter, but that is effectively irrelevant

Vince has been talking about this restrictive zero hours contract for at least 6 months. He is still only talking about a government consultation.

The current system is better than it was. Under the old system an employee could be clocked off and required to be on site unpaid until needed. That is illegal now.

nevertheless, to be banned from taking another job (anywhere?), when you are just on unpaid call from your "first" is outrageous

if it involves "confidentiality" or similar, then it may be understandable, but again that can be a legal minefield to enforce
however, it is certain that no one on zero hour contract is going to have the knowledge or even be in a position to challenge

With excuses to Manuel, who probably won’t understand what I am trying to put across. I admit it is for brevity probably poorly expressed.

===========================
I cannot see anything wrong in a person working 1 hour or 100 hours a week, if they are doing so out of choice and not endangering themselves or others due to fatigue.#

If somebody wishes to do a few hours a week for extra “pocket money” so be it, but pay them at least the market price for those hours worked.

There are questions about the abuse of a work force intimidated by “necessity” into working short or long hours, without security, at rates less than the living “hourly rate”.

(Also, there has to be questions, in some cases, of efficiency when a greater number of individuals are producing the same “object” rather than a lesser number.)

What I was getting at is the crude unemployment figures do not consider actual hours of “productive” hours of work. That may be the reason for GDP slow actual rise against Cameron’s present claims for employment.

The model of economic “success” based on GDP also needs review, or at least the way it is crudely used by governments, especially by the present bunch, or PR agents.

An example for me of weaknesses is that a company or factory can produce and “unwanted” or “unnecessary” piece of crap. Parcel it up, flog it on, with PR etc. to a “spiv” who flog it on to a retail outlet and then the object is pushed out to some suckers in the public.

The object has little or no intrinsic value and is dumped in the bin for “scrapping”.
(The only value can be stated as “value of possession” can be dismissed.)

However, the money “oil or financial lubrication” transactions of producing little of value goes into the GDP.

They may not add to the intrinsic value of the country.

Part of the delight of this government is built on the increase of the (retail) ie. PRICE of housing, (not actual intrinsic value of the property), trash being sold in the shops and lead up to XMAS, but less than necessary being spent on the infrastructure improvements which are necessary for a successful country.

There are better models expressing economic success than the one which this present government is crowing over.

No no, the real economy is growing!



The Independent. 18th December 2013


UK house prices are set to rise by a further 8 per cent as demand continues to exceed supply, surveyors have forecast.


The Royal Institutions of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) estimates that all parts of the UK could see home prices rise, with London set for another 11 per cent jump.

The surveyor warns the demand and supply imbalance remains the biggest challenge facing the residential market as would-be buyers struggle to find a property.

RICS expects the number of transactions to improve at 1.2 million in 2014, but warns that this is still short of the 1.67 million sales seen back in 2006.

The rise in construction starts to 155,000 from 125,000 this year could be insufficient given the rapid growth in population, it added.


more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-house-prices-set-to-rise-8-in-2014-says-rics-9014682.html

Update - Labour lead at 4
by YouGov in Politics
Thu December 19, 2013 6 a.m. GMT

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 18th December - Con 34%, Lab 38%, LD 10%, UKIP 11%;

This morning there was a substantial YouGov poll on EU renegotiation in the Sun – the full tabs are here. YouGov have done regular tracker polls in the past on how people would vote in a referendum on the EU, which tend to show a slight majority for leaving as things are, but a hefty majority for staying in if David Cameron manages a renegotiation of some sort and recommends a yes vote.

UKIP is consistently polling across all polls at a level where they will get zero MPs.

Low wage rip off Britain, set up by the Tory Government and largely maintained by Blair and co, And continued by this lot.

If people don't want it, then don't vote for it.

Stan I think it's fair to say Blair and co sent it (low wage rip off Britain) into overdrive with their immigration policy.
2517

George,

Blair was, is, and always will be a Tory, The immigration policy by what was (laughing referred to as a "Labour" Government) certainly helped the Low Wage nonsense environment which we find ourselves in now.

Low wages are the future for many people with no chance of change, no matter which party is in power.

What is the percentage of immigrants in the UK "work force"?

Would be interesting to relate the figures of 1st, 2nd and 3rd generations?

What is the relationship between productivity of immigrants and that of the indigenous population?

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Again it might be interesting to see "productivity" related to countries of origin.

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