Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

With excuses to Manuel, who probably won’t understand what I am trying to put across. I admit it is for brevity probably poorly expressed.

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I cannot see anything wrong in a person working 1 hour or 100 hours a week, if they are doing so out of choice and not endangering themselves or others due to fatigue.#

If somebody wishes to do a few hours a week for extra “pocket money” so be it, but pay them at least the market price for those hours worked.

There are questions about the abuse of a work force intimidated by “necessity” into working short or long hours, without security, at rates less than the living “hourly rate”.

(Also, there has to be questions, in some cases, of efficiency when a greater number of individuals are producing the same “object” rather than a lesser number.)

What I was getting at is the crude unemployment figures do not consider actual hours of “productive” hours of work. That may be the reason for GDP slow actual rise against Cameron’s present claims for employment.

The model of economic “success” based on GDP also needs review, or at least the way it is crudely used by governments, especially by the present bunch, or PR agents.

An example for me of weaknesses is that a company or factory can produce and “unwanted” or “unnecessary” piece of crap. Parcel it up, flog it on, with PR etc. to a “spiv” who flog it on to a retail outlet and then the object is pushed out to some suckers in the public.

The object has little or no intrinsic value and is dumped in the bin for “scrapping”.
(The only value can be stated as “value of possession” can be dismissed.)

However, the money “oil or financial lubrication” transactions of producing little of value goes into the GDP.

They may not add to the intrinsic value of the country.

Part of the delight of this government is built on the increase of the (retail) ie. PRICE of housing, (not actual intrinsic value of the property), trash being sold in the shops and lead up to XMAS, but less than necessary being spent on the infrastructure improvements which are necessary for a successful country.

There are better models expressing economic success than the one which this present government is crowing over.

No no, the real economy is growing!



The Independent. 18th December 2013


UK house prices are set to rise by a further 8 per cent as demand continues to exceed supply, surveyors have forecast.


The Royal Institutions of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) estimates that all parts of the UK could see home prices rise, with London set for another 11 per cent jump.

The surveyor warns the demand and supply imbalance remains the biggest challenge facing the residential market as would-be buyers struggle to find a property.

RICS expects the number of transactions to improve at 1.2 million in 2014, but warns that this is still short of the 1.67 million sales seen back in 2006.

The rise in construction starts to 155,000 from 125,000 this year could be insufficient given the rapid growth in population, it added.


more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-house-prices-set-to-rise-8-in-2014-says-rics-9014682.html

Update - Labour lead at 4
by YouGov in Politics
Thu December 19, 2013 6 a.m. GMT

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 18th December - Con 34%, Lab 38%, LD 10%, UKIP 11%;

This morning there was a substantial YouGov poll on EU renegotiation in the Sun – the full tabs are here. YouGov have done regular tracker polls in the past on how people would vote in a referendum on the EU, which tend to show a slight majority for leaving as things are, but a hefty majority for staying in if David Cameron manages a renegotiation of some sort and recommends a yes vote.

UKIP is consistently polling across all polls at a level where they will get zero MPs.

Low wage rip off Britain, set up by the Tory Government and largely maintained by Blair and co, And continued by this lot.

If people don't want it, then don't vote for it.

Stan I think it's fair to say Blair and co sent it (low wage rip off Britain) into overdrive with their immigration policy.
2517

George,

Blair was, is, and always will be a Tory, The immigration policy by what was (laughing referred to as a "Labour" Government) certainly helped the Low Wage nonsense environment which we find ourselves in now.

Low wages are the future for many people with no chance of change, no matter which party is in power.

What is the percentage of immigrants in the UK "work force"?

Would be interesting to relate the figures of 1st, 2nd and 3rd generations?

What is the relationship between productivity of immigrants and that of the indigenous population?

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Again it might be interesting to see "productivity" related to countries of origin.

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Post 34318.

Then it would be time to consider future economic policies and distribution of wealth.

Quite happy to see some wealthy gadflies leaving the country and I am sure if they had useful functions that there will be others who chose to stay capable and prepare carry on their functions.


Never met anybody who was irreplaceable. (And I do look in the mirror.)

"Low wages are the future for many people with no chance of change, no matter which party is in power."

That little perl of wisdom is what Right Wing extremists like H/S would like people to believe, fortunately the more intelligent of the populous see through such nonsense.

34318 - let's start with something really easy, by answering a question with a question, as is the wont of us jews :-)

easy to determine the 1st generation of immigrants and arguably even the 2nd, but how do you then define subsequent generations who are the children of mixed-group marriages?

Easily,

Subgroup.

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Stan
The bulk of zero hours contracts are in retail. The rise in online sales has increased price and therefore cost pressure on retailers. Sports Direct hasd 90% on zero hours. There are many others such as Boots, Weather spoon, Cineworld.

Most jobs have been deskilled and create low wages as the supply of workers exceeds demand. A lot of businesses only survive on low wages. If you want higher wages then expect to pay much higher prices. No government can legislate to pay wages that are much higher. You can up the minimum wage and that is what people will be paid. There is only one route to better pay and that is a successful economy where workers are in demand. As we have too many people in the UK now, market forces are unlikely to create a shortage of workers. That will mean low wages.

Usualy non union shops that have zero hours contracts.

Unions obviously against them and you usualy find where their is no union low wages are the norm.

When will the working class realise Unions are good for them.

Usualy non union shops that have zero hours contracts.

Unions obviously against them and you usualy find where their is no union low wages are the norm.

When will the working class realise Unions are good for them.

The workers can join a union, but the employer doesn't have to recognise the union.

34309 - such a shame that you torpedo the thrust of your intelligent questions and comment with the customary political soapbox claptrap ..... but to extract the various intelligent bits .....

pay them at least the market price for those hours worked ..... the living “hourly rate” ...... surely the market rate by definition is the price that someone will accept for doing a given job ..... which in some ways links to "the living hourly rate" ..... however, i would certainly accept that some or even many people feel compelled, perhaps through economic circumstance, to accept a certain rate for a job even if they feel (rightly or wrongly) that it is actually worth more

GDP and other statistics .... there is no right way of compiling these as all are inevitably open to different interpretations ..... however, if you keep switching the methodology, it quickly becomes impossible to make comparisons with history ..... nevertheless, it was certainly a fair comment that hours-worked per capita would be a useful addition to certain statistics, but even that is not watertight, for pretty obvious reasons

productivity .... in the 60/70s uk productivity across nearly all industries was appalling, for all sorts of reasons ..... the result of this was that industries relocated elsewhere in the world, crudely but not entirely accurately put "because labour was cheaper"

in fact, even today, there are certain countries in the world where employing "too many" to do a certain job is a legal obligation - again for fairly obvious reasons

An example for me of weaknesses is that a company or factory can produce and “unwanted” or “unnecessary” piece of crap .... what unbelievable arrogance! ..... what right do you have to determine what should or should not be produced and sold, if a market can be found?

PRICE of housing, (not actual intrinsic value of the property) the value of a house is what someone will pay for it .... as an awful lot of people have discovered in the last 5 years, to their great economic discomfiture, is that (even) house prices can fall, and significantly too

certainly more affordable houses need to be built, but where and how? .... there's the added problem that far too many young people - at whom i guess this grouping is aimed - have champagne tastes and beer incomes and are unwilling to cut their coat according to the cloth and thus buy something "adequate", even if not in the favoured area, just to get themselves on the ladder