Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

It's very easy to fill in this form online for anyone interested.

The Mail has launched a petition giving people the chance to press the Government to use part of our massive foreign aid budget to help the thousands of British families whose lives have been made a misery by the floods.


Just fill in this form and send it to us. We’ll pass it on to the Prime Minister’s office.

Please revert to the desktop version of our website if viewing on an iPhone.


Alternatively you can click HERE to print a copy and send it to the Daily Mail by post.



Dear Prime Minister,
I strongly urge you to divert some of the £11billion
a year spent on overseas aid to ease the suffering of
British flood victims, and to build and maintain flood
defences to prevent a repetition of this crisis.





Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2556043/Sign-petition-calling-Government-divert-foreign-aid-flood-hit-British-families.html#ixzz2t0bnISz7
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2556412/Breathtaking-incompetence-DOMINIC-SANDBROOK-says-people-run-Britain-never-touch-flood-debacle.html#socialLinks

The monthly ICM/Guardian poll is out. Topline voting intentions are
CON 34%(+2), LAB 38%(+3), LDEM 10%(-4), UKIP 11%(+1)

The poll findings also include a survey of voting intention for the European Parliament elections in May. Surprisingly this shows UKIP in third place behind the Conservatives and Labour. The poll finds that Labour leads with 35%, the Conservatives are on 25%, UKIP on 20%, the Lib Dems on 9% and the Greens on 7%. Many commentators had suggested that UKIP could end up topping the Euro ballot.

And before any Tory goes screaming but Meacher is a far lefty, heres one from a TORY admitting near as dam it the same thing about the lies over the deficit...........

Finally! Exposed! The Deficit Myth! So, David Cameron When Are You Going to Apologise?
Posted: 24/10/2012 07:33


"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on"
- Winston Churchill

As a Conservative I have no pleasure in exposing David Cameron's deficit claims. However, as long as the party continues to talk down the economy via the blame game, confidence will not be given an opportunity to return. For it is an undeniable and inescapable economic fact: without confidence and certainty there can be no real growth.

Below are the three deficit claims - the mess. The evidence comes from the IMF, OECD, OBR, HM Treasury, ONS and even George Osborne. The claims put into context are:

CLAIM 1
The last government left the biggest debt in the developed world.

After continuously stating the UK had the biggest debt in the world George Osborne admits to the Treasury Select Committee that he did not know the UK had the lowest debt in the G7? Watch: Also, confirmed by the OECD Those who use cash terms (instead of percentages) do so to scare, mislead and give half the story.

Its common sense, in cash terms a millionaire's debt would be greater than most people. Therefore, the UK would have a higher debt and deficit than most countries because, we are the sixth largest economy. Hence, its laughable to compare UK's debt and deficit with Tuvalu's who only have a GDP/Income of £24 million whilst, the UK's income is £1.7 Trillion.

Finally, Labour in 1997 inherited a debt of 42% of GDP. By the start of the global banking crises 2008 the debt had fallen to 35% - a near 22% reduction page 6 ONS Surprisingly, a debt of 42% was not seen as a major problem and yet at 35% the sky was falling down?

CLAIM 2
Labour created the biggest deficit in the developed world by overspending.

Firstly, the much banded about 2010 deficit of over 11% is false. This is the PSNB (total borrowings) and not the actual budget deficit which was -7.7% - OBR Economic and Fiscal Outlook March 2012 page 19 table 1.2

Secondly, in 1997 Labour inherited a deficit of 3.9% of GDP (not a balanced budget ) and by 2008 it had fallen to 2.1% - a reduction of a near 50% - Impressive! Hence, it's implausible and ludicrous to claim there was overspending. The deficit was then exacerbated by the global banking crises after 2008. See HM Treasury. Note, the 1994 deficit of near 8% haaaaaah!

Thirdly, the IMF have also concluded the same. They reveal the UK experienced an increase in the deficit as result of a large loss in output/GDP caused by the global banking crisis and not even as result of the bank bailouts, fiscal stimulus and bringing forward of capital spending. It's basic economics: when output falls the deficit increases.

Finally, the large loss in output occurred because the UK like the US have the biggest financial centres and as this was a global banking crises we suffered the most. Hence, the UK had the 2nd highest deficit in the G7 (Not The World) after the US and not as a result of overspending prior to and after 2008- as the IMF concur.

CLAIM 3
Our borrowing costs are low because the markets have confidence in George Osborne's austerity plan and without it the UK will end up like Greece.

Yes, the markets have confidence in our austerity plan and that's why PIMCO the worlds largest bond holder have been warning against buying UK debt.

The real reason why our borrowing costs have fallen and remained low since 2008 is because, savings have increased. As a result, the demand and price for bonds have increased and as there is inverse relationship between the price of bonds and its yield (interest rate) the rates have fallen. Also, the markets expect the economy to remain stagnate. Which means the price for bonds will remain high and hence, our borrowing costs will also remain low.

Secondly, the UK is considered a safe heaven because, investors are reassured the Bank of England will buy up bonds in an event of any sell off - which increases the price of bonds and reduces the effective rate. Note, how rates fell across the EU recently when the ECB announced its bond buying program. Thirdly, because, we are not in the Euro we can devalue our currency to increase exports. Moreover, UK bonds are attractive because, we haven't defaulted on its debt for over 300 years.

David Cameron would like people to believe the markets lend in the same way as retail banks lend to you and I.

Overall, when the facts and figures are put into context these juvenile deficit narratives and sound bites ("mere words and no evidence") simply fail to stand up to the actual facts. The deficit myth is the grosses lie ever enforced upon the people and it has been sold by exploiting people's economic illiteracy.

So, David Cameron when are you going to apologise?

Cameron is playing the blame game to depress confidence and growth to justify austerity. Secondly, to use austerity as justification for a smaller state to gain lower taxes. Thirdly, to paint Labour as a party that can not be trusted with the country's finances again. Therefore, we Conservatives will win a second term because, people vote out of fear. The latter strategy worked the last time in office (18 years) and will work again because, in the end, elections are won and lost on economic credibility. Hence, as people believe Labour created the mess they won't be trusted again.

Finally, as the truth is the greatest enemy of the a lie I urge you to share this on Facebook, Twitter, blogs, text and email etc etc. So the truth can be discovered by all. Finally, have no doubt, people have been mislead by the use of the following strategy:

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" Joseph Goebbels

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2556043/Sign-petition-calling-Government-divert-foreign-aid-flood-hit-British-families.html#ixzz2t0bnISz7

Ive filled it in.

Hope others do aswel.

Is there a site where I can sign that I am happy with the foreign aid and don't want it diverted.

there's certain to be an emergency slush fund for this sort of thing ...... that said, what do you guys consider can actually be done with immediate effect?

Fly the Dutch in.

Good idea goldfinger - our lot are clueless, they can't join the dots together - shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

The Dutch are already in Somerset over the last few days.

there's no magic wand!
the dutch have had a vulnerable coastline since time immemorial, and of course there's much less of it than in uk
in fact, it was only subsequent to the catastrophe in 1953 - i think 1500 people died in NL at that time - that the dutch gov't started doing anything meaningful and ongoing
that was 60 years ago, so as an immediate stop-gap, what do you clever chaps think can be done?

by the way, what "we" did at Spurn Point is worth a look, but even that "simple" but very good solution would not be instantaneous and would still sacrifice a huge amount of farmland

very easy being an armchair critic isn't it!
fossy is past master

It was the Dutch that drained the Somerset Levels a few hundred years ago. It is a man made landscape and vulnerable to rising sea levels and storms that are worst on record.

GF.

The problem with your postings on the economy is that many are in denial and the present government appears to be a bunch of stunted lying school boys.

They repeat their mantras handed down from "head office" like conforming altar boys and eventually believe them.

---------

If during the first 3 years of the present period of tory led mismanagement, austerity rush (for political reasons) had been slower and money poured into improving the infrastructure earlier, then poverty of many in the work force could have been less and welfare benefit payments reduced, perhaps, being more prepared for the destruction produce by the "floods" etc. and the country better repaired for the "upturn".
====

I think I will copy and paste your postings on this thread at various intervals.

I see Miliband has his wellies on and is wading round Berkshire. I suppose he is looking at the mess that Labour made of the environment when they had it under their control.

4 years of complacency and mismanagement by the torrid party.

They are behaving like juveniles delinquents in charge of the sweet shop and dispensing the goodies to pals for future favours.

Mind the reduction in financing of the Environment Agency is coming home to bite in interesting areas. (Even though some tories are trying to lie there ways around the figures.)

Perhaps, it would be interesting if there was no central grants or financing for the flooded areas and any improvements paid for by the local communities.

lots of rattle and prattle, but still no immediate solutions being suggested by our armchair critics
wouldn't expect otherwise from fossy, but i hoped others might have some sort of engineering background and thus sensible input
personally, i don't believe there is any immediate solutions, and indeed, even longer solution would require 10+ years to implement + of course HUGE amounts of money and unequivocal political support from all parties

It had been raining for days and days, and a local river crested, flooding many houses. The waters rose so high that one man was forced to climb onto the roof of his house.

As the waters rose higher and higher, a man in a rowboat appeared, and told him to get in. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the rowboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters rose higher and higher, and suddenly a speedboat appeared. "Climb in!" shouted a man in the boat. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the speedboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters continued to rise. A helicopter appeared and over the loudspeaker, the pilot announced he would lower a rope to the man on the roof. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the helicopter went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters rose higher and higher, and eventually they rose so high that the man on the roof was washed away, and alas, the poor man drowned.

Upon arriving in heaven, the man marched straight over to God. "Heavenly Father," he said, "I had faith in you, I prayed to you to save me, and yet you did nothing. Why?" God gave him a puzzled look, and replied "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

Could the BBC save Taxpayers money by not having such a big TV coverage of the Winter Olympics ? Am sure the average viewer isn't all that interested.

But Manuel the tory boyos, like yourself, have been telling the gormless public that they have the solutions for everything and never make mistakes.

They have been in "power" for 4 years.

The only mistakes made are those of others and not anything to do with them and nothing to do with their supervisory positions.

I supposed their institutional upbringing has taught them to weave and duck and cling together, as long as it not personally expensive.

They haven't noticed the public are realising that this governing bunch is becoming more and more disconnected from them.

(Corporal Cameron, putting on his wellies and trying to appear like a modern day Bonaparte retreating from Moscow isn't washing.)


Mind they know what should be done, cut, cut, cut, everything except taxes. That will sort out the problems.

They are beginning to see the results of some of their injudicious actions.

The bunch which in control have been the most arrogant, elitist and detached group I have seen in power over the last 60 years.

fossy - you remain the armchair pedagogue with nothing ever constructive or sensible to say .... as is said in michelin, worth a detour