Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Haystack

Sorry. Yes, I did read it.

The story sounds extremely credible and it only really leaves TWO important unknowns (I'm sure there must many more, though).

"...238 people may have died because of one person’s suicide plot. But while this theory may answer why the plane crashed into the Indian Ocean, it raises another question: Why did the pilot want to take his own life, and the lives of so many others?"

So why did he commit suicide?

Possible answer: The pilot of doomed flight MH370 was distraught over his wife’s decision to move out of their family home

And why did he take the passengers with him?

I guess he was so utterly pissed off with his wife and life in general, he 'road raged' about things, 'totally flipped' and thought, "Well, if that's what you get for being a good guy all your life, then why not!" ie. A sort of 'revenge act ' against the whole of the human race and society in general with all of its injustices, difficulties and all of the horrible situations it puts people in and then just expects them simply to be able to deal with all of such stuff and then simply move on.

Perhaps this guy just couldn't do that?

This shows that he loved his wife too much and probably was unhappy about other issues otherwise he wouldn't do this to 238 other people.

These days, only a the rich who manage our money and, in most cases, our governments are happy. The rest are just trying to keep up or follow these guys.

Manuel,

“Never” is a long way away!
-----------
I suppose capitalism and its flawed capitalist theory, for you and many others, is the substitute for a "god", or a "religion" and for the moment justifies personal actions.

To me, sometimes, it is interesting to examine the raison d'être of some who wish to promulgate their limited capitalist concepts with such religious fervour and yet deny the any justification of various groups for having their more simplistic satisfaction from the beliefs and practices.

------

Another U-Turn for Cameron and cronies and adherents.

Enquiry into Energy Markets.

Adopting labour policies more and more!

Cameron continues to open his mouth but it is not attached to his brain.

Perhaps, it went up in smoke and blown away in the past.


=======

.

do the above two paras actually have a link?

btw, "flawed capitalist theory" is no more flawed than the flawed communist ideals which have pretty much bitten the dust worldwide ...... my guess is that the underlying cause of that is that communism fatally denies and does so by its nature both free will and human nature

the closest one came to a true and successful communism was the short-lived and small-scale early israeli kibbutzim, but those were driven by a different force from a communal ideal .... i think that makes good sense (english!)

Are Cameron and Osborne Communists?
26 Wednesday Mar 2014

Posted by Mike Sivier in Uncategorized



David Cameron: Stalin’s successor in the Tory Party?

‘If I was an Englishman, I would be a Conservative.’

- Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev during his visit to Britain in the 1950s.

The Coalition’s attack on the poor by forcing down wages and cutting benefits conforms so closely to Marx’s theory of the ‘Iron Law of Wages’ and the programme the Russian Revolutionary, Nechaev, suggested for the way the true revolutionary should undermine capitalism from within that I ended up idly wondering if the Tories really were aware of how similar they were. In fact, so close are they to those parts of revolutionary socialist ideology that I even wondered if they similarities were deliberate, and Cameron, Osborne and Clegg were trying to see how far they could go in showing that Marx and Engels were right before the workers finally revolted and the Chipping Norton Set were ejected from government. In fact, they are following Marx so closely that I wondered if they weren’t actually following Nechaev’s advice and deliberately trying to undermine capitalism from within.

The Iron Law of Wages

The ‘Iron Law of Wages’ is one of the main doctrines of Marxist ideology. According to it, as capitalism develops, the bourgeoisie attempt to maintain higher profits by deliberating forcing down wage to ever lower levels. Eventually wages will become so poor, and the working classes so miserable, that they will revolt and overthrow the government.

Nechaev and the Revolutionary Catechism

The Russian Revolutionary Nechaev believed that this process should be assisted by revolutionary conspirators. The 19th century Russian revolutionaries had repeatedly failed in their attempts to spread Socialism and overthrow the tsar as the Russian people, on whose behalf the Revolutionaries believed they were fighting, remained largely opposed to their efforts. In his Revolutionary Catechism, Nechaev therefore argued that the true revolutionary should become absolutely ruthless, ready to sacrifice and betray anyone and everyone in order to further the revolution, even create chaos and misery in order to harden and radicalise people to the revolutionary cause. He argued that revolutionaries should deliberately enter the government and try to make conditions as worse as possible for the people. Eventually the people would become so miserable and desperate, that they would revolt, overthrow the tsar and create the new, Communist society.

Revisionism and Rejection of Iron Law of Wages

In the later 19th and 20th centuries many Socialists, such as the German revisionist, Eduard Bernstein, criticised and rejected the ‘Iron Law of Wages’ as it did not seem to be born out by contemporary events. Rather than the workers becoming increasingly impoverished, wages were actually rising. Some of this may have been due not just to expansion of the European economies as capitalism developed, but also through the actions of the various Socialist and working class movements, like trade unions, in forcing industrialists to pay better wages. The post-War economic consensus also stressed the need for higher wages and better conditions for the workers, as this would allow them to purchase consumer products and so stimulate the economy and raise profits.

Return of Iron Law under Tories and Tory Democrats

Now, through globalisation and Neo-Liberal economics, the Iron Law of Wages is back with a vengeance. It’s at the very heart of the Coalition’s policies. They are determined to hold down wages below the rate of inflation, so that in real terms the working and lower middle classes are actually taking a cut in wages. At the same time, they are destroying the education system, the NHS and the welfare state in order to maximise the profits of private industry still further, and so creating a level of poverty and misery that has not been seen in decades. We really are heading back to the 19th century world of ruthlessly predatory capitalism at a rate of knots. So closely do their policies conform to Marx’s prediction, that it strongly reminds me of the slogan on one of the T-shirts sold by Red Molotov. This is a company that specialises in selling such shirts with quirky, and often left-wing or radical slogans. One of their shirts has a portrait of Marx, underneath which is the slogan ‘I told you this would happen’.

Quite.

Coalition Conscious of Own Predatory Nature

I don’t, however, seriously believe for one single minute that they are revolutionaries trying to provoke an increasingly impoverished British public into overthrowing capitalism and the state. They are simply ruthless, predatory capitalists doing what Marx believed ruthless capitalists would always do: exploit the poor and drive them to ever increasing depths of despair, insecurity and poverty, all for greater profits.

And they know this. Osborne had the temerity to quote Marx, while Philip Blond, Cameron’s mentor, liked and quoted the Russian anarchist, Kropotkin, in his book, Red Tory. They simply don’t care that they conform to Marx’s description of capitalist ruthlessness. All that matters to them is that the ordinary man or woman in Britain doesn’t, and continues to swallow all that nonsense that ‘we’re all in it together’, and that the cuts and the austerity drive are the result of high-spending by the previous Labour administration, rather than an integral part of their own Neo-Liberal economic policies.

The Way to Stop Them: Voting, Not Revolution

There is an alternative. Unlike the masses of 19th century Europe, who were largely excluded from participation in the electoral process because of property qualifications that excluded the poor, people don’t have to riot or revolt simply to make their voices heard. They can force out iniquitous and unpopular governments by simply voting them out. And we need to do so now, at every opportunity before the Tories and Tory Democrats make the situation very much worse.

the reverse is also pretty much applicable - i.e. the person on benefits living off the state which the taxpayer wrongly sees as a completely separate and different entity from himself


actually, both Jason Read and myself are talking a pretty much similar load of codswallop - or crap if that is your chosen epithet

:-)

Manuel,

It depends on what you mean by true, flawed, ideals, success and for whom.

Having witnessed first hand what was labelled a communist state, and knew some who were in the higher echelons of the state (professional and otherwise), and noted the intentions and codes of practice often used within the system.

I was less than impressed with its "said" practice. But same applies elsewhere.

Look around you.

The same group of leaders could easily have be transposed to a capitalist state like the UK.

The motivation of the leadership is often perverted by wish for personal gain, of glory, financial gain, or power.

Look at the leadership now , and the dipping of hands into the trough of expenses.

(Dig under the leadership of any club, society, institution and the same often applies to a less harmful degree.)

Miserable thoughts for to-day.

I hope my chicken is cooking nicely.

Execline
There is another version.

The plane club med to 43,000 ft to put out a fire by starving it of oxygen. This is a procedure. The passengers were close to unconscious as were the part lots. The pilot puts the plane back into autopilot and falls unconconsious. Everyone dies and the plane slowly descends to 35,000 ft and carries on to Indian Ocean.

But what about it turning round in the opposite direction and heading off out to a remote place.

Now we are on to too many detrimental coincidences, IMHO

It strikes me that Hazy has been to Party HQ to often and now under the influence of Bing Crosby is confusing fiction with gospel truth.

8-)

"Having witnessed first hand what was labelled a communist state"
why would you be surprised?
as i wrote before, that's the trouble and fatal flaw with the so-called communist ideal; it totally forgets or wishes to suppress (closer to the truth) both free will and human nature


gospel truth??????
surely a misnomer for starters!


feel sorry for your chicken .... it obviously came home to roost, and now look!

Cynic you posted this above......"as i wrote before, that's the trouble and fatal flaw with the so-called communist ideal; it totally forgets or wishes to suppress (closer to the truth) both free will and human nature"................ends

Is that not the case with the present Tories especially IDS with all his suicides on his hands.

GF>


I was about to post similar view!

"it totally forgets or wishes to suppress (closer to the truth) both free will and human nature"

This is the practice of the present motley crew in cabinet.

They have like Manuel been indoctrinated to worship false gods and icons.

It is wonder they don't have pagan night outs in their undies.

Or, perhaps Hazy One does with Manuel waiting at table.

8-)

Here's to more U-turns!!!!!!!!!!

Yep fully agree Fred. Manuel as scored a home goal.

There were price controls on energy and Labour removed these between 2000 and 2002. Prior to that Often set the price of energy, so it is somewhat rich for Labour to complain about the market that they created.

whatever you guys say ..... still, i'm told MU couldn't manage even that .... is it true?

David Moyes Football Genius!