Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Sonny Jim,

I suggest you read back through your posts and the wording and language use in some of them and the pejorative remarks you make about all and sundry.

Unless, of course, you consider yourself as omniscient.
-==-==-=

I think Cameron will go down as a failure and has done more harm to this country than any recent PM in history by a cheap political stunt, which has backfired, rather than acting as a statesman and being able to rise above internecine party politics.

PS.

One of the problems with UK politics at the moment is that there is a famine or scarcity of statesmen who have views or perspective of the future integrating all parts and members of society.

Personalities like Boris and Nigel are rabble rousers. What they trade on is being able to rouse "primitive" and "instinctual" emotions.

Personally, I would like to be seen as a European rather than a little Englander.

But I will wait and watch.

If I am wrong, I will be happier.

The media and the politicians are pushing the 'verbal' hate crimes attacks as
if it didn't happen before the vote, I'm not denying there is some going on
but i don't believe there is anymore then usual, but its being blown out of
proportion because its all part of the brainwashing, in their hope of getting
another referendum they're starting to get the negatives into the publics
mind..

And don't think i'm being fanciful in my thoughts, after all they tried to use
every trick in the book to get a remain vote...

Just because we're leaving the EU dosn't mean we're not european, but
Fred if YOU want to be a 'european', go and live in a 'more' european
country..SIMPLES!

Thank you for the advice!

Well its obvious you need some advice, otherwise you just spout nonsense..

It's a well known ploy by the media or political parties if it suits their agenda,
claiming shouting racism...

as i have not yet been labelled a pariah, i shall ask the same question that fred did ......

the outers (which included me) carried the day, but what has actually been won?
i've had an oblique stab at what has or at least might have been gained, but as it stands, we are all somewhat in limbo

Gorgeous, pouting Nicola's plans go down the proverbial.



Nicola Sturgeon's hopes of keeping Scotland in EU dashed by Francois Hollande and Spanish PM Rajoy



By Simon Johnson, Scottish Political Editor
29 June 2016 • 3:07pm




Nicola Sturgeon’s hopes of negotiating a deal to keep Scotland in the EU suffered a serious setback today after Francois Hollande ruled out talks and the Spanish Prime Minister said it has to leave with the rest of the United Kingdom.

Mariano Rajoy told a news conference that the Scottish Government “does not have the competence” to negotiate with the European Union. He concluded: “If the United Kingdom leaves... Scotland leaves.”



More: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/29/nicola-sturgeons-hopes-of-keeping-scotland-in-eu-dashed-by-spani/

What do you want people to tell you cynic? article 50 hasn't been invoked
yet, we are waiting for the tory's to get a new leader.

Hopefully one who's got some balls, or the equivalent if its a woman.

Because the EU have being spouting about if we want to trade in the single
market we have to have free movement, but as we all know thats what happens
before any negotiations, the opposition play hardball..So we've got to be harder..

cynic , turn it the other way round ... what have we lost ?

Oh yeah ... the European Court of Injustice for starters.

Petition to deny the request for a second referendum

I'm confident we'l get a deal that does not include free movement.

It says on that petition "The minority within the Leave campaign
believe there should be a second referendum"

I don't know who that is, the only slimeballs i know who are seeking
another referendum is 80% of the politicians and the pro-eu media,
that's who i'm keeping my eye on...

The EU today was adamant that access to the free market means free movement. I think they will stick to that because to relax it would encourage other countries to leave. They can't have countries getting a better deal outside than in. Their main concern at present is to stop more countries leaving. To them them it is more important than the UK leaving as that is history now.

If statistics are anything to go by : an interesting anecdote was on the BBC news website..(fabulous by the way...better than live TV)....there is a precedent for a departure from the EC : Greenland in 1985 apparently !....

There are several other cases including Algeria. They were all special cases. All of them gained independence from other countries. Greenland was part of Denmark and Algeria was a colony of France. When they became sovereign countries they left the EU. Greenland is tiny. Their referendum was around 30,000 votes. They all left the EEC and not the EU.

Talking of petitions: There is a petition to allow concealed guns to be allowed in the Republican Convention next month.

Spain has said it will 100% veto Scotland joining the EU, because it will encourage Catalans and Basques to break away from Spain. That should give Nicola something to stew about.

3916 - quite so, but ways to vary that may well be found, perhaps relating to benefits or similar

it certainly looks to me that the plutocracy is now very much on the back foot, trying for damage limitation rather than laying down the law

It could boil down (this exit result) to the fact that A Merkel has allowed a million (huge figure I presume correct) illegal immigrants to enter Germany,.....is that crazy or what ?...I reckon the French aren't saying anything because they are so dependent on the EC alliance with their Germanic cousins.....there is or there has to be a tipping/falling out limit here....at the moment they are all in agreement...but there might come a time when the imbalance, separate state ideas resurface and the whole idea of a common market (which has gone way past what it should be already) just falls apart.