Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

If statistics are anything to go by : an interesting anecdote was on the BBC news website..(fabulous by the way...better than live TV)....there is a precedent for a departure from the EC : Greenland in 1985 apparently !....

There are several other cases including Algeria. They were all special cases. All of them gained independence from other countries. Greenland was part of Denmark and Algeria was a colony of France. When they became sovereign countries they left the EU. Greenland is tiny. Their referendum was around 30,000 votes. They all left the EEC and not the EU.

Talking of petitions: There is a petition to allow concealed guns to be allowed in the Republican Convention next month.

Spain has said it will 100% veto Scotland joining the EU, because it will encourage Catalans and Basques to break away from Spain. That should give Nicola something to stew about.

3916 - quite so, but ways to vary that may well be found, perhaps relating to benefits or similar

it certainly looks to me that the plutocracy is now very much on the back foot, trying for damage limitation rather than laying down the law

It could boil down (this exit result) to the fact that A Merkel has allowed a million (huge figure I presume correct) illegal immigrants to enter Germany,.....is that crazy or what ?...I reckon the French aren't saying anything because they are so dependent on the EC alliance with their Germanic cousins.....there is or there has to be a tipping/falling out limit here....at the moment they are all in agreement...but there might come a time when the imbalance, separate state ideas resurface and the whole idea of a common market (which has gone way past what it should be already) just falls apart.

New Zealand offers UK its top trade negotiators for post-Brexit deals



By Peter Spence, Economics Correspondent
29 June 2016 • 4:22pm




New Zealand has offered its top trade negotiators to the United Kingdom, relieving the British civil service as it prepares for the strain of seeking new deals with countries across the globe.

The Telegraph understands that the Commonwealth country has made an offer to loan staff to the UK in a diplomatic cable sent to the British civil service, which has few trade negotiators of its own.

Wellington’s olive branch came alongside an offer to discuss a trade agreement with the UK, which would help Britain get out of the starting blocks and begin replacing the trade access lost as a result of the Brexit vote.


More: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/29/new-zealand-offers-uk-its-top-trade-negotiators-for-post-brexit/

If it comes to choosing between Boris and Theresa to do the negotiating for us, I'd go for Boris every time.

Question:- "cynic Send an email to cynic View cynic's profile - 29 Jun 2016 18:27 - 3909 of 3924

................... i shall ask the same question that fred did ......

the outers (which included me) carried the day, but what has actually been won?
i've had an oblique stab at what has or at least might have been gained, but as it stands, we are all somewhat in limbo"

Answer:- Freedom to decide for ourselves.

Freedom of movement reform 'on the table' for Brexit talks, suggests French minister as he breaks ranks with rest of EU



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/30/freedom-of-movement-reform-on-the-table-for-brexit-talks-suggest/

As much as the EU says they won't do any deals on free movement ,i think they might with us and the rest of Europe in time ,they don't want any other countries leaving .
Maybe the UK leaving could kick start a renegotiation of free movement with other countries.

I see your point, jimmy, but if they are too soft with us on this ' free movement' topic and give us a really good deal, then other countries are going to be queuing up to leave the EU too.

When I voted to 'Leave', I actually wanted to stay in the EU - but I did clearly recognise, that to change how it was being run, even from within, was utterly impossible. It is NOT a DEMOCRATIC institution.

I think Britain did have to actually vote to Leave to give things a bit of a shake up.

So....Four days after Brexit, is there any way back?

FT article: Can Brexit be stopped?

The article ends with:

Anything is possible

So pro-Europeans should give up? No. So long as a British government does not trigger Article 50, Britain remains an EU member. The political forces unleashed by this referendum are unprecedented and unpredictable. It is far from fanciful to imagine that the next two years or so will see the complete recasting of the nation’s politics, quite possibly with the creation of a new, centrist, pro-European party. So those who want Britain to stay close to its own continent could think the unthinkable and work to make it thinkable.

1 down (France). 26 to go (the rest of the EU).

French say Britain could have a Trade and Borders Deal

I saw that French minister that Max has posted the link to above on Newsnight Exec and my point is maybe it's possible that other countries such as NL ,Sweden ,even France have had enough of free movement .
If any other country were to start making serious noises about a referendum maybe the EU would sit down and discuss free movement rather than see the EU come apart.
Just a thought .

You have kind of posted what i was trying to get at above Exec.

That might be their pre negotiating bluster, when its said that they won't want
to give the other 27 countries the idea that leaving would give them the same
deal as those staying in...

It should be a RED LINE by those who are doing the negotiating for Brexit, that
that's what it is on the matter of free movement being a condition on any trade
deal, and its made plain that controlling our borders and choosing who is allowed
to come to this country is paramount.

If anyone says its not possible, Canadians do NOT have free movement into the EU,
and they have a very good free trade agreement.....

Free movement is what the EU uses to scatter the lesser type of person onto richer countries to take pressure off their home country , therefor trying to equalise the EU over a period of time .They have had ample time to suggest reform and lost one Nation because of this . I wouldn't pin my hopes on anything coming out of these tactics that are showing up daily . They lost but are trying a back door attempt to stay .

Canada has a good free trade agreement with the EU in principle.. It still has to be agreed by the Council and Parliament.
What is interesting is that it was agreed subsequent to a report "Assessing the Costs and Benefits of a Closer EU-Canada Economic Partnership" which was released in October 2008.
Now there is no doubt that a similar study (does it need a study?) would come to the same conclusion with regards to the UK:EU. But the process is so slow and cumbersome. As I've said before, you can't manage a business by committee. In the case of the EU, there are 27 countries, most with an economy smaller than London, that must have their say.

So we were informed the other day that there 'is' intentions to have
a european army, its being reported today that the EU is now speeding
up the accession of Turkey..

More lies are now being disclosed every day...