This board has been a little to quiet for while.

Is it time that Bush and Blair who is a close friend and confidant of Bush were tried for War Crimes?

Do you think the use by the American Administrations of renditions are War Crimes and committed with full knowledge of American and British leaders ie. Blair and Bush and they are ultimately responsible?

Also in the aftermath of the illegal invasion of Iraq are should their action seen to be as the provocation for the rising toll of British, American and Iraqi deaths.

As a result of the military intervention in Iraq do you think you are safer in Britain to-day?

Do you think one should expect government leaders and ministers who have been responsible for massive foreseeable casualties should visit the hospitals to meet the casualties they have produced directly or indirectly by their actions?

I see no evidence that the neo-cons are having any change of heart or mind. The US seems as determined as ever in its direction. It looks more like the Democrats are in disarray having moved too far to the left. I am expecting a major confromtation with Iran.

Fred, The view of the world that runs along the lines of "lets have a bit of a chat and a stern word with these people" is not sustainable!
You talk about majority in relation to South Africa. What about the majority in Iraq who wanted Saddam out. What about the world majority who wanted Saddam out?
I have read Robin Cooks book and I don't subscribe to the informed opinion idea. I do subscribe to the idea that politicians of all walks only write books to show how they were right all along and everyone else was a blithering idiot. That is human nature.
Britain never gave unequal rights to catholics. How could they negotiate a peace by giving them something they already had?
And on the subject of Ireland, peace came about because the terrorists finally realised that terrorism was not getting them anywhere. It was only making their country poorer.
Our armed forces and civillian police hunted the terrorists down, wherever they were and arrested them. Where gunfire was used, our troops returned fire, and innocent people were caught up in it all and died. But it worked.
We are doing the same, on a larger scale in Iraq.
Your analogy with the German officers of WW2 is offensive. these men knowlingly slaughtered millions of civillians, with no military target in mind, just a political one. Nobody in command has asked this medic to kill thousands of civillians for the sake of poitics. Where he has been asked to take part in armed action, it is in the defence of his fellow soldiers and in prosecuting the attacks on military targets.
The politics are not those of "Neo-con", they are of realism.
Those that attack the position taken by those who have chosen to take a difficult but necessary desicion, do so without a single idea on a workable alternative.
It is a very simple question really. What do you do with someone whose position is a threat to those around him and who refuses to compromise?
We are about to face the same dilema in Iran. The Ayatollah would be very happy to do exactly as he pleased if he thought the worst that would happen is a stern talking to!!
Books?? What makes these magically informed and unbiased? What gives the author a superhuman ability to have magnificent 20 20 vision and no preconcieved ideas? I prefer to base my politics on my own logical approach to human nature, rather than jump on the coat tails of someone desperate to sell books. If we believe the written word to be sacrasanct and beyond ill-informedness and bias, then we must believe what the Sunday Sport has to say!!
No thanks. I will deal in realism, and a realisation that my abhorance of violence is unfortunately not shared across the world.
Alan

I fully expect violence of some sort to start again in Northern Ireland when the Republicans realise that they won't get what they want.

There is not the slightest chance of a united Ireland or of real power sharing. Any move in that direction would produce a very strong reaction from the Unionists.

The previous violence stopped partly because the leaders were getting too old. A new generation of terrorists may spring up again.

loved your comments about bham being ugly, it has always had that perception, and not helped by the concrete jungle the old 'bull ring'' which thankfully as now been knocked down. Bham has been redefining itself over the last 10 years, new buildings are flying up everywhere residential and business. eating houses, gentlemens clubs, pubs , night clubs. It is a great city to live in, just need the football team carrying the name of the city to improve now.

I bet the brummies and ginger haired people are thankfull for the illegal immigrants and foriegners who take everybodies insecurities flak because if it wasnt for them im sure we'd be the next in line to be blamed for all the worlds problems. Nothing to do with power and greed of course!!

Its a long time since I've been to Birmingham (about 20 years). When I was there it looked like it had been designed by a Lego salesman. ;-)
Everyone loves their home city. I adore Leeds, even though I know its a shithole really.

I went to Birmingham not long ago and it hasn't changed much. One of the worst things is the terrible road system. It reminds me of Croydon.

absolute baloney, if i knew how to cut and paste pics onto here (im sure someones going to show me) i would show you just how much it has changed. I trully believe its a great city and not a shit hole (though some areas need avoiding). back me up fred!

at least birmingham will be around when the seas rise...London will be under water in 10 years and property prices will dive to zero..get out now

maestro's deramping London , don't sell your houses he wants to pick them up cheap !!

95,000 Kensington 2016 ,

LOL

Take away the Bay trees and the ground floor ,still good value.

There was an interesting article by Simon Jenkins "Blair's fundamentalism is the real enemy of western values" in The Sunday Times. Don't agree with all his positioning but he appears to have a fairly accurate assessment of the present situation.

H6, Thankfully, I think you and I will differ. As is said "nobody is as blind as those who don't wish to see, until they walk into a brick wall". Iraq is America's and Blair's brick wall.

I remember Birmingham when it was far worse, at least it is continuing to improve since I first arrived here.







I hasten to add the improvement is not due to my arrival.

Still no suggestions as to an alternative course of action that would have resulted in a happy Iraq, with fulfilled citizens free from fear and tyranny, then Fred?
That is the real acid test. The question is not whether the course taken was the right one, it is was another and better course available, that would have achieved the desired effect? Unless of course you believe Saddam should have remained in power, in which case you are in a very tiny minority.
There is a grave danger of anti-Blair and anti American sentiment finding an outlet in lambasting them for their actions even though there was no way the worlds requirements for absolute certainty that Iraq was not a threat could be achieved another way.
Proposals for a bloodless revolution below please.
Alan

jimmy b - 26 Mar 2006 22:53 - 400 of 405
maestro's deramping London , don't sell your houses he wants to pick them up cheap !!


LOL!


Fred "nobody is as blind as those who don't wish to see" - aye, you can scream til yer blue in the face ...LOL

H. Sadly you are right about Iran - hawkish attitudes are alive and well in the Whitehouse and they are stupid enough to do it. Vietnam has taught them nothing.


As many Americans themselves are finally beginning to understand, it is a good thing at times to mind one's own business.

zscrooge. There is a salient point here though, with Iran.
If the diplomatic attempts to stop them enriching uranium fail (as it seems they might), what do we do then?
Am I to understand that the piece campaigners will demand a no action approach, and threaten that any military action will be viewed as illegal?
Doing nothing will increase the chances many times over that there will be precious little peace to campaign for as an Iran that threatens publically to wipe nations from the face of the earth becomes a nuclear power with the capability to do just that.
If you are comfortable with the Ayatollah having those capabilities, so be it. Many nations would be terrified. To allow unregulated enrichment of uranium in that most unstable of countries would be a massive dereliction of our duties to seek a peaceful world, but if Iran refuse a negotiated settlement, what then?
As the old saying goes, If you would seek peace, prepare for war.
Alan

Why are the Iranians less fit to have Nuclear Weapons than a Country (and fawning henchmen), which has a proven record of using them also of supporting illegal and terrorist actions in numerous countries throughout the world be denied the possession of them.

American and Britain are led by corrupt administrations with little respect for International or National law.

Because Iran is a sponsor of terrorism andis a destabling in fluence in the Middle East. There would seem to be a likelyhood of Iran using a nuclear weapon against Israsel. The US and UK both follow international law. The invasion of Iraq was done with a UN mandate.

Because Iran is an aggresive force, who have pledged to wipe another country from the face of the planet. Because Iran sponsors state terrorism. Because Iran supported the idea of assasinating those who published a few silly cartoons..........and on and on.
The only time a nuclear weapon was used in anger was to end a brutal war swiftly. I do not agree with nuclear arms and i do not condone their use in any way or for any reason, but Iran has pledged to wipe an entire population from the map because they disagree over which particular outmoded belief system they should follow, and destroy other countries because they disagree over what free speech actually means.
I think thats a few good reasons to be going on with why Iran should not be allowed nuclear capabilities, but again, instead of merely criticising, please show us the alternative.
Alan

And please, let us know which nations are so superior to the UK in their respect for national and international law. There will be a mass migration there, but I suspect the only place such a regime exists is in Utopia.
Alan