Brown's spend, spend, spend during his Chancellor's days has brought us into the current economy we are facing today. His appeal at a Downing Street meeting for the lenders to pass on cuts appeared to fall on deaf ears with HBOS, which owns the Halifax, increasing its rate on some mortgages from 6.09 to 6.59 per cent. Borrowers taking out this type of deal will now pay 46 more a month. On a two-year tracker, the rate will increase from 1.49 points above base rate to 1.99 points, giving a current rate of 6.99 per cent.

Other lenders are expected to follow Halifaxs lead.

If the Government wants the banks to lower mortgage rates to home owners - why not just offer them through Northern Rock? Everyone would rush to the Rock to get the loans forcing banks to match the rates or lose the business? Or maybe the government would then run into bigger credit crunch?

I think I would like to quitely die in peace rather than have a surgeon like Brown kill me off then bringing me back only to kill me again. He is a financial killer of the first degree. Better to wipe him out and let another surgeon have a go.

Gus, Again you action would be knee jerk, with less chance of survival.

What are your replacement policies for the economy?

I am interested as the more I try to think of possible solutions the more complexities I see.


Another question, why is the Tory party seemingly wheeling out its geriatrics once again. The ghosts of the past are appearing more and more in the media, especially our Norm Tebbit, Fouler Fowler, Black Tuesday Lamont, Heseltine and Clarke? When are they going to reincarnate Maggie, or is she still the LEADER?

Doesnt say much for the present Tory leadership, when is their next party leader election.

Fred,

I have a question for you. On other threads you have mentioned your age, your family and the fact that you've spent your life working.

Over the years, how have you handled your finances?

Spend, spend, spend allied to borrow, borrow, borrow?

Or earn a bit, save some and spend a little bit as and when it becomes disposable?

Just curious.

Yes Fred , I can just roll them off the top of my head from a distance. Policies that promote confidence and NOT desperation. Mandelson announced the first bit off good news today with small and medium business guarantees but, I noticed that he did mention that this represented action and NOT slogans. Could this have some hidden meaning for Brown's benefit. Surely not!

Hilary, You are inquisitive about my personal affairs. As it seems necessary for you to know, on this occasion I will on this occasion give you a little information.

Sometimes wisely, sometimes made mistakes. Always had food on the table and clothing for the family.

However, when I first acquired a property, I found it had a leaking roof and the plumbing system was a shambles and both needed repair and improvement for the future. I did the necessary repairs.

I didnt squander what I had earned by giving short-term gifts to some of my friends.

I suppose I could have ignored the problems and moved out, leaving it to the next owners to renovate.

I also held on to any silver I had for the future. (Dont dare mention the selling off of the gold reserves.)

Gus, one positive to Brown and Co

What are your other suggestions?

Do you agree with Obamas probable policies, or the monetary policies of the EU. Or, perhaps you agree with the future policies of the majority of the worlds' governments?

I only enquire, Fred, because I care about your gaskets. From the sound of things you've lived your life both prudently and in recognition of your responsibilities.

And yet here we have a government who have spent, spent, spent for a decade yet haven't put anything by for a rainy day. They now intend to borrow, borrow, borrow in the hope that it will get them out of this mess. Even the Australians recognised that the good times would not last forever and have been stashing some cash under the mattress over the last few years so they don't have to go cap-in-hand to their taxpayers.

I'd like to ask one more question. If you personally were in debt, would you borrow more to try and get out of the mess? Or would you knuckle down and work a bit harder and longer to try and clear some of the debt?

You would make a very good politician Fred, why not have a go yourself, might as well.

Oh Fred,

You asked about the monetary policies of the Eurozone. I see today that S&P slashed Greece's credit rating, which took 2 cents off fiber and caused the spreads between the same Greek and German debt to widen to 250 basis points.

If you really want to know about the Eurozone economy, the technical term is that they're fcuked.

Hilary, Would depend on the need for borrowing. If it was for a holiday or a new car no.

If it is to coverage leverage NO.

If was to pay prevent pain and misery to those around me. Probably yes. "Hoping to recover it the money over a longer period, from those who can afford to pay a little more." and accepting that some will not get as fat as they expected to.

One of the things which amuses me a little, is if what Gordon Brown's government is attempting to do, doesn't come off. Then think of the mess that will be left to the Tory party to try and clear up.

That is one reason for Clarke seems so contented on the side lines. It might also account for Brown's smile. The latter is a little worrying.

I suppose we could bring back our Saviours Blair and Maggie. Perhaps, Blair could make a donation to party coffers. He has done well enough out of politics.

Fred,

This isn't about helping those around you to prevent pain and misery. That is admirable, but it doesn't answer my question.

To remind you, my question was:

If you personally were in debt, would you borrow more to try and get out of the mess?

I assume from your partial response that your answer is no. I guess that you don't see taking on further debt as a solution. And yet you're happy to condone the actions of a government who do, when they wouldn't be in this mess in the first instance had they been more astute in their budgeting over the last decade.

And I was also amused to see that you were amused at the prospect of the Tories having to clean up the mess that Gordon will have left. Because you'll be the one who's left to pay the heavy taxes needed to sort the mess out while I intend to be out of the system watching on from afar.

Hilary, I have a responsibility to those around me.

I have been reminded that I ran with an over draft for 30-40 years. Clearing it on my last retirement.

Where are you thinking of hiding? Not

I'm more than thinking, Fred my old bar of Toblerone, the wheels have been in motion for a year now.

But it's not just me. I have friends who have simply creamed it for the last 10 years and have now said enough's enough. They've been smart enough to get their money out of the UK over the last year or so and just don't want to be around for when Gordon comes knocking.

That's some mighty endorsement of the Government's policies.

No just personal greed. But. I am interest, will any of the "advanced nations" not print money.

What is the effect on the bird in the hand.

I am just asking, The more I try to work it out, the more difficult is seems for me to get an answer.

To a greater and lesser degree, whoever you are, where ever you are, you will be effected by this euphemistically called "downturn!


Unless, of course, you have a self sufficient small holding with a trout stream and a windmill.

Fred, you're not very good at answering questions, but I'll have a try anyway.

Why do you persist in publishing on a public FBB your 'chip-on-the-shoulder' apologist half-formed views which are then invariably torn to shreds by other contributors to the board? Do you take some sort of perverse pleasure in making yourself look completely stupid or do you not realise you are doing so?

No insult intended, just the impression you generally give.

HI FRED WELL I MUST SAY I AGREE WITH YOU (1000 per cent)well i must go and have avery long DRINK OF STRONG STUFF??????////I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD EVER SAY THAT///WOW/////////WOW

PTH,

I can't stop myself from hoping that a person like you can be further educated and help with their fairly obvious problems.

I can but try.

I think you must try an read the others poster properly, or squelch mine and the other post which you don't like.

Honestly, it is very easy to do. 8-)


8-)

Well Fred, a 'person like me' has learnt an awful lot from many posters on this board, I'm afraid to say I cannot include you in the list. But in a roundabout way you are therefore educating me by making a fool out of yourself, for that I must thank you :)

I am glad to see Ken Clarke back on the Tory front bench. He was the last chancellor to lead us out of a recession and left a strong economy for Labour to ruin. He has very strong views on Labour's disastrous policies, such as stopping tax allowances on pension funds, which everyone is still suffering from.

I was a volunteer in 2005 working as part of his campaingn team in offices above Central Hall Westminster when he ran for leadership of the Conservative party. He is one of the nicest and most amusing politicians you could hope to meet and I would still prefer him as Prime Minister.

I went to a party for him after the leadership election and he told me that as he was walking through the lobby after losing the election, a Liberal Democrat MP said to him "we need a new leader, if you want a job!". That was a couple of months before Charles Kennedy resigned.

Good choice. Should highlight the Tory division. When is the next Tory party leader election. Need one quickly as Tweedle dee and Tweedle Dumb look washed out.

Agree with you Haystack-good news.