Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

The tories have they own knife grinders.

Mind the seem to have put Farage and IDS back in their cages.

Wouldn't want to live next to them!

The trouble with these situations is that all sorts of tradeoffs appear just to get elected , so the person saying one thing now can easily be coerced into saying something that satisfies certain people only , it's out of our hands really and we leavers could get shafted .

Yes i kind of don't trust anyone until i see what they do .
Shame Farage isn't in charge of negotiating our way out ,he would be the only one i would trust for sure.

Farage will not even be involved in negotiations, luckily.

The odds are now 40 times in May's favour. She has said she is in no hurry to invoke article 50 and certainly not before end of year, no early election, no second referendum and brexit means brexit. She was a reluctant remainer so she will not be that displeased with the result.

Ken Clarke has suggested that Gove should withdraw after his treachery.

Conservative MPs declared so far

Ken Clarke will know all about withdrawing after trying, unsuccessfully, to be leader of the conservative party three times. He is one of the firmest believers in the EU, so hardly surprising that he wants to skewer Gove now.
I met him in Rio de Janeiro years back, British Chamber of Commerce, I think. Affable individual. Bit gobby like most politicians. Probably past his sell-by date now.

Some home truths about St Theresa..



Theresa May is a great self-promoter, but a terrible Home Secretary


1 July 2016 • 10:25am





In the run-up to the 2015 election, one of the handicaps David Cameron had to finesse was the fact that net migration to the UK was three times as high as he had promised it would be. Remarkably, none of the opprobrium this failure provoked brought forth the name of Theresa May, the cabinet minister actually entrusted with bringing migration down. Then, as now, it was as if the icy Home Secretary had a dark magic that warded off all critical scrutiny.

The fact that her lead role in this fiasco went unnoticed and unmentioned likely reflects Mrs May’s brilliant, all-consuming efforts to burnish her image with a view to become prime minister.


After all, Mrs May’s tenure as Home Secretary has been little better than disastrous – a succession of derelictions that has left Britain’s borders and coastline at least as insecure as they were in 2010, and which mean that British governments still rely on guesswork to estimate how many people enter and leave the country.

People find this hard to credit because she exudes determination and strength. Compared to many of her bland, flabby cabinet colleagues, she has real gravitas. And few who follow British politics would deny that she is a deadly political infighter. Indeed Theresa May is to Westminster what Cersei Lannister is to Westeros in Game of Thrones: no one who challenges her survives undamaged, while the welfare of the realm is of secondary concern.



More: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/01/theresa-may-is-a-great-self-promoter-but-a-terrible-home-secreta/

I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE,

Michael Gove, I think he Believes on I BELIEVE

Watch him at BBC 24 hours just now

Gove is dead in the water.

Ken Clarke didn't withdraw. He fought three leadership contests. He was stitched up by the MPs for being to pro European the same way Gove will be stitched up. Clarke was the favourite among the party members so they stopped him getting to the last two.

Just read a report that Austria's constitutional court has ruled the Presidential Election must be re run in the autumn , due to inconsistency in voting . How true don't know .

re - Theresa May is a great self-promoter, but a terrible Home Secretary

I have not read the link above, but one thing is very clear, as I said before the main reason for most people voting OUT was " Imigration " and she was in charge of that post, so is clear she was not doing a good job, despite yesterday saying, she fixed everything on her path.

The President of Austria is essentially a ceremonial roll and gives no policy powers.

Why was it rigged then .

I don't know what the irregularities were.

There was a 143% turnout in one area .

Up to North Korea standards.

Yes there was a village that had a postal vote, where an individual was
studying the results and found the anomaly, where there was 145% over
the populations registered voters..

And quite rightly there's to be a re-run....

It was like that in Tower Hamlets where there were supposedly several hundred voters living at various addresses. It is one of the reasons that there is now individual voter registration now.