Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

or maybe Ukip,” he said , in other words he hasn't a clue. But we all know UKIP are going to win.

The point being made was that it is anybody's election.

my major concern with ukip and their meps, and no one has gainsaid this, is that once elected they contribute absolutely zero to any debate, but merely fill their wallets with tax-free salary and expenses

therefore, without being party-biased about it, what on earth is the point of voting for ukip at all other than as a protest vote to proclaim that "i want out" regardless and without any further debate on the matter

cynic
I agree. It is completely pointless to vote for UKIP in the EU election. All it will do is decrease our influence in Europe. This is particularly pointless as even if we get a referendum, it looks like the public will vote to stay in.

It is not pointless to vote for UKIP in the MEP EU election.

UKIP are the only party who want us out of the EU.

The Lib Dems are 'pro Europe' and happy to continue as we are

The Tories are also happy for us to stay in and are happy to keep on trying to renegotiate a better position for us. Not that they seem to be any good at doing it. Indeed, the Tories and Lib Dems between them seem powerless to do anything about EU immigration laws, which currently give unlimited EU immigration into the UK without any ceiling. (How Stupid!). Furthermore, 75% of our laws are created in Brussels without us being able to do anything about it. (How stupid!)

Voting for UKIP sends the 'clearest message' any voter can think of to say "Enough". We want some stronger say in our governance whilst we are members of the EU. The current government isn't giving us it and we are telling you guys, "We want massive changes or even out of the EU".

Now, when it comes to voting in the General Election, a vote for UKIP is, for the moment apparently utterly pointless. The party don't even have any MPs or even any candidates. One might be coming along to take a position in the Commons from the Newark bi-election. However, this candidate will have to overturn a 16,000 Tory majority to get elected. If that candidate wins he will be a lone UKIP voice in the commons and will only have the position until the next General Election. This is not a good £5 bet.

In the GE the Tories (led by David Cameron) promise a Referendum. From some viewpoints, Cameron has reneged on the doing of this Referendum and might do so again.

Importantly, will he renege again if he gets a massive message from the electorate who give a massive vote to UKIP, in the MEP elections? Most UKIP voters think he will not renege on giving us this Referendum. And, when we get it, it will be 'touch and go' as to whether we vote in it and actually do continue to stay in the EU.

I for one, want us out. So does Paul Sykes, the multi-millionaire Yorkshire businessman. There are lots more like minded people too.

For a start, a strong vote for UKIP in the MEP elections will just have to do.

To ensure we get a referendum, a vote for the Tories seems a good idea. For me it is a brilliant idea. In our constituency we actually do have a very hard working Tory candidate, Andrea Leadsom, currently working as Secretary to the Treasury. They don't get better than Andrea - no matter what party she represents.

So I know who (and why) I am voting for in the next two important elections.

Actually, that's wrong. I don't actually know who the UKIP candidates were who I was voting for. For me it was irrelevant. I already just ticked the UKIP box.

If we do have a Referendum, there will be much debate.

It should clear the air about what the majority want and whether it is possible to get any or all of it. It should put levels of importance on what we can get and what we can't should we decide to stay in.

Years ago, I was deeply in favour of us joining the Common Market.

I did not vote for us to have 75% of our Laws made in Brussels by unelected EU beaurocrats.

Our political masters are horrified by Ukip. Trouble is, the voters aren’t


By Sean Thomas Politics Last updated: May 17th, 2014

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100271887/our-political-masters-are-horrified-by-ukip-trouble-is-the-voters-arent/



You can almost hear the screams from Primrose Hill (Photo: PA)



You can almost hear the screams from Westminster, can’t you? Every time Nigel Farage opens his mouth, the combined political classes of Primrose Hill and Holland Park react like a chorus of flashed spinsters, exposed to the hairy buttocks of a drunken navvy. Oh my word, he’s done it again! Someone stop him! Help!

But it’s a funny thing, this metropolitan fainting fit induced by anything connected to Ukip. To me it seems overdone; to me it suggests there are deeper psychological forces at work. After all, Ukip have yet to win a single MP at Westminster. So why do they invoke all these bladder-bursting conniptions in the chatterati?

Opinion formers would have it that Ukip’s opinions are the problem; i.e. the party is a bunch of crypto-fascists, the BNP with polished brogues, a bus-load of “loonies, fruitcakes and closet racists” (according to the PM). Therefore these barely concealed bigotries need to be exposed, by the scandalised elite, so the proles can react with proper aversion, and go back to dutifully voting Lib, Lab and Con.

But what are these appalling Kipper opinions, polices and personalities which so affront the Top Ten Thousand?

First, the people. There’s no doubt that Ukip does attract a few crazies and extremists. But then, all political parties do that, indeed I’d suggest that, for most citizens, the mere act of joining a political party – any party – is the act of a dubious nerd with narcissism issues, so Ukip are hardly unique. Furthermore, Ukip – as Farage ably put it – do not have a monopoly on oddballs. Or extremists.

Here, for instance, is a list of Labour Party notables who used to be communists or Marxist fellow-travellers: Alistair Darling. Jim Murphy, Jack Straw, Peter Hain, John Reid, Peter Mandelson. Now, whatever you think of Nigel Farage or Paul Nuttall, as far as I know they have not called for the overthrow of bourgeois democracy, so let’s toss out that canard about Ukip being uniquely “full of extremists”.

How about their policies then? One Kipper position that Ukipphobes love to cite is their apparent desire to reintroduce the death penalty. And on the face of it that does seem quite “out there”. No EU nation uses the death penalty (it is forbidden by quasi-EU law), virtually no western nations use the death penalty. So this policy is indeed a fringe position, right? Wrong. On the latest polls about 50 per cent of Britons support the death penalty. Half the country. And until Ukip came along, the views of half the country, on this issue, were entirely unrepresented in mainstream politics.

Then what about Europe? You probably know what I’m going to say here but it’s worth saying anyway. All three mainstream parties are intent on remaining within the EU (after some pantomime renegotiation if you are a Tory). That means that the 30-50 per cent of the country that expressly wants to leave the EU has been wholly unrepresented in politics. Until the rise of Ukip.

Then what about immigration? Ukip’s policy is to severely restrict immigration. Again this seems pretty radical, until you look at the polls. Sixty-nine per cent of people actually want zero net immigration. In other words, most Brits, when it comes to immigration, are even further to the right than Ukip.

And so on, and so forth. Ukip are against HS2 (the only party with that position). So are 48 per cent of the British people. Ukip have considered a policy to ban the burqa (the only party to consider that position) – this is a policy supported by 61 per cent of British voters. Ukip want to cut foreign aid (the only party with that position) – this is a policy supported by 55 per cent of the British people.

Now personally, I’m not a Ukip supporter, but I can damn well read Ukip’s polling numbers. And what they tell me is that virtually all of these “cranky”, “fruitcake”, “loonytoon” positions adopted by Ukip turn out to be opinions shared by large minorities, or outright majorities, of the British electorate. They are also opinions that have, until recently, been ignored and repressed by the liberal elite.

This then, is why the political classes are horrified by Ukip. It’s not because they believe Ukip are really crazy. It’s because they are worried Ukip might be really popular.

exec - i read what you write and also sort of understand your point -"i want out, no argument, no discussion, no debate" - but if you have an mep who does nothing at all other than collect a fat tax-free salary + expenses, what is the point of having him/her there in the first place?

Cynic

You are mostly correct with your assessment.

1. My vote for UKIP makes a statement, "I want out." I only want to make this statement and it is the sole purpose of my vote.

I now move on to the General Election:

2. I vote Tory. They promise a Referendum. No one else does.

Leading up to the Referendum:

3. I want lots of debate about whether we stay in the EU, the benefits, the disadvantages. I want to reappraise my thoughts on membership.

4. I vote in the Referendum.

Which way will I vote?

5. I don't yet know. I haven't heard the 'ins' and 'outs' properly debated.

Is it even worth me voting in the Referendum?

6. If we can't seem to be able to renegotiate a better deal, I will definitely vote for "Out!" (Sad to say, this is how it is looking at the moment)

Lastly, I come back to your comment: "....but if you have an mep who does nothing at all other than collect a fat tax-free salary + expenses, what is the point of having him/her there in the first place?" :

Ans. Absolutely no point. My only reason fro voting is to join with others in a massive voice to say: HEY! I DON'T LIKE THIS EU THINGY. I WANT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A PROPER SAY! IS ANYONE OUT THERE LISTENING?

The MEP will not be able to change one thing. The whole thing of how the EU is run is a farce anyhow. I mean, like, have you seen any decent Party Political Broadcasts on the TV? had anything decent through your door? Do you know who the candidates are? What they stand for? The whole thing is a complete farce. The EU is not run by elected MEPs, it is run by UNELECTED EU beaurocrats.

Hays Hays Hays

labour storm back into the lead in last 3 polls.......

YouGov/Sunday TImes – CON 34, LAB 37, LD 9, UKIP 13

And

YouGov/Sunday TImes – CON 34, LAB 37, LD 9, UKIP 13

and

Ipsos MORI/Standard – CON 31, LAB 34, LD 9, UKIP 11

Puts labour in with an overal majority

Further more UKIP cannot get the MPs they need to take us out of the EU. They are impotent regarding any power in any area. You might as well vote for a cat as it would have the same amount of influence. If enough people vote UKIP then they will get the exact opposite of what they want. Labour will get elected and there will be no referendum.

gf
There is a year to go and the trend is against you. Just be patient and you will get what I want.

There wont be a referendum with Cameroon either.

Why do you keep spinning that particular lie?

You know it wont happen!

he he........ Hays, brave man talk from a man who knows hes onto a hiding.

Yep those thinking they are going to get a referendum from the Tories will never get it as labour will win the GE.

Anyway it not until latter end of 2017 if theirs the faintest chance of it happening.

Have you Little Englanders considered all moving to the same area and then setting up your own "Little England Country" within it? You could then lobby the government for some sort of Independence/Self Government, something like Wales, Scotland or more recently Cornwall?

This place is probably to far north for most of you http://http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-27313889 ... But I think you may get the idea with a bit of intelligent thinking.

No takers? Bit further to go but how about this one then http://www.property.org.uk/unique/islands.shtml

As Alf would say, answer the question -):

Whether you believe Cameron will give you a referendum or not, it is still the only way you might get one. The whole concept of a UKIP protest vote in the EU elections is just silly. Everyone already knows there is a lot of pressure for a referendum. All a large UKIP vote for EU will do is damage the process of putting our point of view across in Europe. If Cameron winsvnext year then we will get a referendum. I am sure of that. I also think it is highly likely that the public will vote to stay in. The net result is that we will be in the EU and have a hoard of UKIP MEPs who won't represent us. All in all UKIP are a waste of time for everyone. Their whole proposition is illogical.

Don't forget that Cameron would be forced to have a referendum as his backbenchers would insist on it and disrupt the government if they didn't get it,.

34% an overall majority?
don't be bloody silly!
even with the slanted constituency bias, labour need not less than 38%

as for "storming into the lead", i'm afraid at this stage of the game a paltry 3% lead for the opposition is pretty pathetic and says lots about the public's view of both parties

even when labour had a consistent 7% lead, it was hardly convincing, and clearly this is being slowly whittled away .... if i was a labour mp or even follower, i would be pretty worried about the chances of even being the leading party after the GE

I for one do not think that NuLab or even OldLab will win the GE outright.

The leadership are taking it's members for fools. And lets not forget, it's NoLab's traditional members/supporters who are bearing the brunt of the immigration fiasco.

It aint over yet.

by "win outright" i assume you mean an overall majority = no coalition required ..... thoroughly agree; i just hope there's a "proper" turnout of ~70% but i fear that too is unlikely