Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

By Tom Miles

GENEVA (Reuters) - A shock referendum result demanding controls on European Union migration has created a serious headache for politicians, who must do the people's bidding without jeopardising access to the single market.

Not Britain: Switzerland.

Home to more than a million EU citizens, Switzerland voted on Feb 9, 2014 to impose quotas on migration, potentially ripping up a bilateral deal with the EU on free movement of people. It could trigger a "guillotine clause" cancelling six other bilateral agreements, including on air transport, road, rail and agriculture.

The government sees few ways out and, in what could be a warning to Britain, may have no choice but to ask voters to reconsider. Though even that is difficult.

Switzerland is one of the models some supporters of Britain leaving the European Union have pointed to of a European economy that thrives outside of the EU. But in 1999, to negotiate access to the European single market, it had to agree to bilateral deals that allow free movement of workers from EU countries.

European leaders say they will demand similar "free movement" conditions if Britain is to retain easy access to the EU market, a position that British officials acknowledge makes it difficult to deliver the limits on migration that voters want while also keeping the free trade businesses need.

As in Britain, voters defied the advice of their government to deliver a narrow victory to a referendum campaign led by right-wing populists.

The Swiss referendum was backed in rural areas with few migrants, and carried with 50.3 percent of the vote, upsetting businesses and creating an unexpected dilemma for the government. Swtizerland now has until February to implement the binding result.

"Right now we are in a situation that is both delicate and paradoxical," Swiss negotiator Jacques de Watteville told an audience of Swiss bankers earlier this month, before the Brexit vote.

Foreigners make up a quarter of the population of the neutral Alpine country, which despite being outside the EU is inside its Schengen zone of border-free travel. Three hundred thousand workers commute into Switzerland across borders from France, Germany and Italy every day.

NEW REFERENDUM?

Swiss politicians now appear to face a choice of passing legislation that the EU will reject, abrogating their agreements with the EU unilaterally, or hoping that the 2014 vote will get overturned by a new referendum.

"I don't see any possibility for the EU to give anything to Switzerland," said René Schwok, a professor at the University of Geneva and author of books on Swiss-EU relations.

The referendum has already resulted in Switzerland being dumped from Europe's "Erasmus" university exchange programme. Once the government passes legislation to implement it, the guillotine clause would end a range of other bilateral agreements, having far wider impact.

A campaign to overturn the 2014 referendum is already underway, but it would require a majority of Switzerland's 26 cantons to agree, as well as the population, which means it is unlikely to succeed, Schwok said.

Some in Britain are closely watching the Swiss case for the lessons they can learn. Remain campaigners say it shows that the victorious Leave side may not be able to deliver its promises.

"It's not at all clear that Switzerland is going to achieve the objectives that it has set out," said British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond, who campaigned to remain in the EU against a Leave campaign also led by figures from his ruling Conservative Party.

"There are some of my colleagues in the Conservative party at the moment saying things like 'It'll be straightforward to agree access to the single market and there'll be no need to have freedom of movement,'" he told BBC radio this week.

"I'm afraid they are simply betraying a lack of understanding of the political realities in the European Union. It will be much more complicated than that."

De Watteville, the Swiss diplomat charged with finding a solution to the EU problem, said whatever solution is found, the Swiss will probably have to return to the ballot box.

"In the end, it’s going to be up to the Swiss people to decide, because in any scenario, it’s very likely that a referendum will be announced by one side or the other,” he said.

Constitutional Law Academic says Leave campaign was ‘criminally irresponsible

https://www.facebook.com/UniversityofLiverpool/videos/1304633102897424/

Andrea Leadsom, interviewed by Kirsty Wark on Newsnight pre-Referendum..

Andrea believes very passionately, that we would be better off outside the EU.

"We would go (after Brexit) from being a member of the EU to being the EU's biggest trading partner. It would absolutely be in their interests and our interests, and let's not forget we've been aligning our rules with their rules for 43 years, so it would be a very easy thing to negotiate comprehensive Free Trade."

i think that when all the dust settles, uk will NOT be out of eu at all, but the rules will have changed a tad ......
and with luck, there will be some much needed radical reform in the way in which the gravy train is run and legislation formed

it cannot be in anyone's interest (bar putin's) for eu to disintegrate, but as sure as eggs are eggs, it will without radical overhaul

I think we will leave but it may be Brexit-lite. In other words we may have to accept some sort of qualified freedom of movement. It is unrealistic to imagine that immigration is going to fall much.

Manuel.

Sense from you at last.
I thought you had a little somewhere or other, even if it is sometimes well hidden.

-=-=

Changes in a developing or dynamic institution are always necessary, but evolution is preferable to revolution.

I hope that the UK hasn't blown it.

But the majority of the present political leadership is failing the country.

May, maybe the best tory leader, but strange how some of the right wingers have fled the scene.

unfortunately, i cannot or indeed could not see any way in which the eu plutocrcay would have moved one centimetre had there not been a strong "out" vote ....
indeed, had "out" not won the day against all odds, i have my doubts that their minds would have been concentrated at all

This was posted earlier across the road, sums it up imo.



maximoney1
2 Jul'16 - 22:43 - 179462 of 179465 2 0


Christ, if the somme anniversary tributes dont get through to them the importance of democracy, what will. The crazy thing is, we are actually fighting for the younger generation and they dont even know it. The destruction of democracy is going to have less impact on the grumpy old men age group than it will have on the younger generation, that still have their whole working lives ahead of them and of course their children. It is only because grumpy old men realise the real importance of democracy that they fight for it at all....really think at times, why feckin bother....the young pay the ultimate price.

The lies unfold:

The knife was sharp!

.

In Peter Hitchens column in the Mail on Sunday, he says T. May is a
Blairite Robot...

And i couldn't agree more, she's just another establishment stooge..

Come on, Andrea!

Come on!

"We need a clean break and a fresh face. Andrea was the breakout star of the Leave campaign during the referendum: calm, assured and, in contrast to May and Gove, honest; putting the case for Brexit eloquently and passionately."

article 50
what advantage is there in invoking this asap?
as far as i can see, none whatsoever

while it is still in the background, all sorts of discussions can and i am sure will be held discretely and in private

once invoked, the clock starts ticking inexorably, and as i asked, to what advantage?

exit.

so you really think we'll draw up the drawbridge on europe?

i think not, and it would be very stupid indeed to shut (all) doors ....... i take it you're not in biz for yourself or you might and indeed should know that truism

I agree that there is no case for invoking Art. 50 at this time. The first thing is to choose a PM that is really committed to Brexit and will whip the negotiating team into shape. Preliminary discussions with and without Europe need to take place and there has to be a solid plan B, if, as expected, the EU plays hard ball. On reflection, after looking at the respective CVs, Andrea does seem to be the one.

Who said anything about drawbridges?

I thought you was neutral c?


And where is the tory party spokesman today?

Perhaps he can explain why anyone would go for lady Macbeth?

The Brexit team needs to examine a relatively few areas that will hurt the EU, particularly Germany and France, if it plays hard ball. Viable alternatives need to be in place. Cars and agricultural products come to mind but I'm sure there are bulk industrial materials that will hurt certain countries also.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/03/eu-swiss-single-market-access-no-free-movement-citizens

The European Union is to show its determination to make no concessions to the UK on Brexit terms by telling Switzerland it will lose access to the single market if it goes ahead with plans to impose controls on the free movement of EU citizens.

The Swiss-EU talks, underway for two years but now needing a solution possibly within weeks, throws up the exact same issues that will be raised in the UK’s exit talks – the degree to which the UK must accept free movement of the EU’s citizens as a price for access to the single market.