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THE TALK TO YOURSELF THREAD. (NOWT)     

goldfinger - 09 Jun 2005 12:25

Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

goldfinger - 20 May 2014 20:40 - 41019 of 81564

“The mess we inherited” – some facts with which to fight the Tory Big Lies


Posted By Alister Campbell

​​ I am indebted to Professor Vernon Bogdanor, who among other things was David Cameron’s tutor at Oxford, for drawing my attention to a recent report by the LSE Growth Commission. Anyone who looks at the mix of academics, business leaders, economists and banking experts on the Commission will be unable to dismiss them as Labour stooges.

Professor Bogdanor had read my recent blog suggesting Labour need to do more to rebut the Tory attack on the so-called ‘mess we inherited,’ and so thought I would be interested in the Growth Commission’s overwhelmingly positive view of the economic performance of the Labour government between 1997-2010 – and, in particular, between 2007-10. Indeed I am. Among its conclusions:

- British economic performance was strong throughout the period of Labour government, and GDP per head grew faster in the UK than in France, Germany, Italy or Japan.

- Productivity growth in terms of GDP per hour was second only to the US, and improvements in employment rates were better than in the US.

- This success, they say, was NOT due to an unsustainable bubble in finance, property or public spending. From 1997-2007, finance contributed around 0.4% to a 2.8% productivity growth.

- They also dispute the view that this was all due to Thatcherite reforms which were then accepted as a norm. Instead, they point to improvements delivered by Labour changes to competition policy, a major expansion in education – remember ‘education, education, education’ and – wait for it – immigration.

- On education, they pointed out that by 2007 the UK was spending more on education as a proportion of GDP than Germany and the US, and the percentage of the relevant age group going to university was higher than in France or Germany.

- Furthermore, they believe this had a positive impact in the fight to reduce crime and illegal immigration.

- Crucially, they make clear the crash was an international phenomenon which cannot be blamed on Labour policies, and that Labour did not leave Britain more vulnerable once the crash occurred.

- They say the structural element of the deficit was 1% of GDP in 2008 – it rose to 5% by 2010 because of the crisis in consequence of the fall in tax receipts. So the increase in the deficit was a consequence not a cause.

- They praise the Labour government’s counter-cyclical policies post crash, pointing out that these went some way towards limiting the fall in output, and say Labour ministers were right to recapitalise the banks and maintain demand.

- Where they are critical of Labour is in relation to skills, especially at the bottom end of the social and economic scale, and not doing enough to cut regional inequalities.

But overall the picture is a good one, and totally at odds with the dominant ‘mess we inherited’ narrative, uttered every time coalition ministers open their mouths.

And even if they do not say so explicitly, it is pretty clear the Commission believes that on the big choice of the last election – retrenchment under Labour, or austerity under the Tories – that GB/Darling were right, and DC/Osborne wrong.

This is all relevant to the current debate.

The only way to counter the Tory Big Lies is by fighting back with the truth, even if it means doing so belatedly, and at the risk of the Tories screeching ‘mess we inherited’ ever more loudly.

We see the same in their approach to the NHS. Another ‘mess we inherited,’ they say, to justify changes for which nobody voted and for which they have no mandate. What they actually inherited was an NHS with the highest satisfaction ratings in its history, which are now sliding as waiting lists grow, health workers are deliberately demoralised, and Jeremy Hunt talks up failure wherever he can find it to open the doors to a new system geared to those who see healthcare purely as a source of profit.

The same approach in education, where Michael Gove casts around for schools doing badly amid the thousands doing well, and deliberately distorts Blairite reforms aimed at helping those at the bottom of the educational pile to justify changes aimed at ushering in private providers at the expense of standards and enough school places. And in welfare, where the truth that the big bills are going on pensions for an ageing population is twisted to feed a hate agenda against the poor, the disabled, asylum seekers, all wrapped up as the ‘scroungers’ who in reality make up a tiny fraction of Iain Duncan Smith’s budget.

The Britain the coalition inherited after a decade of Labour in power was fairer, better off, with improved and improving public services, stronger cities wand regions, a vibrant culture. It was not a mess. The mess is happening now, with living standards falling, NHS crises returning, unprecedentedly low morale among teachers and police, power shifting back to a few at the top. Britain, far from booming, as the cheerleaders would have you believe, is recovering more slowly than had they followed the Brown-Darling approach that was beginning to deliver the jobs and growth we needed.

The Tories are planning to run the line that the country should not give back the keys to the people who crashed the car. The truth is the car ran a lot better under Labour, and can do so again.

MaxK - 20 May 2014 21:40 - 41020 of 81564

Yep, lets get broon back, he knew what he was doing!

Haystack - 20 May 2014 22:45 - 41021 of 81564

Of course Brown was ably assisted by Ed Balls and Ed Miliband!

MaxK - 20 May 2014 23:18 - 41022 of 81564

goldfinger - 21 May 2014 01:39 - 41023 of 81564

As was Thatcher with Nigel lawson and Geoffrey Howe.

cynic - 21 May 2014 07:35 - 41024 of 81564

apropos nothing exactly, find below a very small extract from this morning's FT ....

Hollande’s tax rises are playing into the hands of France’s far right,
After spending most of his first two years in office presiding over a series of big tax increases, François Hollande is now backpedalling furiously in the face of a public revolt, the latest manifestation of which is set to clobber the president in Sunday’s European elections.
His ruling Socialists took a battering in local elections in March in good part because of anger over rising taxes. They are braced for another defeat on Sunday, with polls placing them third behind the far-right National Front (FN) and the centre-right UMP party of Nicolas Sarkozy, former president.

cynic - 21 May 2014 07:42 - 41025 of 81564

Farage on breakfast tv
immaculately tailored suit (of course) and certainly very presentable and learning to wriggle and squirm like any other politician

his responses on his huge gaffe re living next next to romanians and on ukip's non-performance in the european parliament were not frightfully convincing, but then of course, there was no real escape

for all that, it is looking very likely indeed that ukip will poll the most votes tomorrow with, less certainly, labour 2nd and tories 3rd .... but turnout is likely to be even more pathetic that usual; will it be even closer to 30% than 35%?

MaxK - 21 May 2014 08:46 - 41026 of 81564



Farage attacks backfire on Labour and Tories

Attacks have confirmed Ukip leader as anti-establishment candidate, according to telephone polling and focus groups


Patrick Wintour, Rowena Mason and Nicholas Watt


The Guardian, Wednesday 21 May 2014


Labour and Conservative polling is showing that attacks claiming Nigel Farage is a racist have backfired since voters do not regard him as such and see the assaults as a sign members of the political establishment are ganging up to undermine him.

The apparent backlash is coming to both parties from telephone polling and focus groups, which say that the attacks have raised Farage's profile and confirmed him as the anti-establishment candidate. It does not tally with published opinion polls that show the Ukip lead in the European elections narrowing slightly.

One source said: "Calling people names does not work. It confirms the old politics."



more: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/20/labour-tory-poll-ratings-farage-attacks

goldfinger - 21 May 2014 08:54 - 41027 of 81564

Read and weep Max. Was going to vote tacticaly for UKIP to give the Tories a kick in the gonads but no point now, might aswel vote labour.

Dont you think your putting your foot in it??????

UK - YouGov/Sun #EP2014 poll:

LAB 28%
UKIP 24%
CON 21%
GRN 12%
LDEM 10%

Haystack - 21 May 2014 08:57 - 41028 of 81564

Update - Labour lead at 2
by YouGov in Politics
Wed May 21, 2014 6 a.m. BST

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 20th May - Con 33%, Lab 35%, LD 11%, UKIP 13%;

goldfinger - 21 May 2014 08:59 - 41029 of 81564


ComRes poll of marginal seats
20 MAY 2014

ComRes have a poll of marginal seats out tonight covering the forty most marginal seats with Labour and Conservative in first and second place (so 25 with Tory incumbents, 15 with Labour incumbents). Collectively the vote in these seats was CON 37%, LAB 37%, LDEM 18%, UKIP 3% at the last general election. In today’s poll ComRes found current support of CON 33%(-4), LAB 35%(-2), LDEM 8%(-10), UKIP 17%(+14). That’s a swing from Conservative to Labour .............ENDS

Very good news for labour its a well known fact Com Res are weighted towards Tory constituencies.

goldfinger - 21 May 2014 09:00 - 41030 of 81564

Hays Hays Hays......cant you sleep, the pressure getting too you.

goldfinger - 21 May 2014 09:07 - 41031 of 81564

More room for rich foreigners as government cuts Disabled Students Allowance,
21/May/2014

Some readers may find the above headline a bit strong, but please be assured – this is what it means.

Vox Political became aware of this story in two contrasting ways, as follows.

Firstly, from The Guardian: “From September 2015 [the government] will only pay for support for students with specific learning difficulties, such as dyslexia, if their needs are ‘complex’, although the definition of this, and who decides it, remains unclear.

“It will no longer pay for standard computers for disabled students, or for much of the higher specification IT it now subsidises.

“And it will no longer fund non-specialist help, likely to include note-takers and learning mentors. The costs of specialist accommodation will be met only in exceptional circumstances.”

Paddy Turner, of the National Association of Disability Practitioners (NADP) is quoted: “This is going to have a disastrous effect on students with specific learning difficulties because it looks very clear that [universities minister David Willetts] is trying to remove them from the DSA. It looks like a knee-jerk reaction to recent reports that specific learning difficulties and dyslexia aren’t really disabilities at all.”

Secondly, please read the following, from Vox Political reader Karlie Marvel, who has a relative with MS: “They are axing the disabled student allowance. The amount of funding for DSA is relatively tiny.”

I’ve been completely staggered by what I have discovered to be going on… Surely, the benefit to the economy of helping disabled students towards being able to contribute fully to society, rather than being left on the sidelines because of penny-pinching, is greater than the cost of a short period of support whilst they train?

“But I can’t say I’m surprised really.

“No education…

“Struggle to find work…

“No benefits…

“Die.

“Coalition government 2014. I’m feeling very bleak, Mr Vox.”

Who can blame her? Yet again, our government of couldn’t-care-less millionaires is cutting support to the very people they should be working hardest to help – the vulnerable disabled who cannot make it on their own.

They have rigged benefit assessments to make claiming as stressful as possible for people who can be killed by anxiety.

They have closed most of the Remploy factories that employed disabled people.

They are closing down the Independent Living Fund (ILF), that delivers financial support to disabled people so they can choose to live in their communities rather than in residential care.

Now this.

MaxK - 21 May 2014 09:16 - 41032 of 81564

Morning gf.

Voting Nu/Old Labour in the €uro-election is a vote for more of the same.


No thanks, time for a change, even if it is only to give the big three a kick up the arse, they sure as hell need it!

aldwickk - 21 May 2014 09:17 - 41033 of 81564

You have got to see this


http://dotsub.com/media/b5ee5ada-5b37-4b0b-9916-e0896337ec4b/embed/eng

MaxK - 21 May 2014 09:19 - 41034 of 81564

ExecLine - 21 May 2014 10:12 - 41035 of 81564

Thanks for that aldwickk.

The guy's name on the video clip is Pat Condell. If you want to watch/listen to more of his offerings, try starting out at:

https://www.youtube.com/user/patcondell

Haystack - 21 May 2014 10:31 - 41036 of 81564

gf
You missed the last part of you Comes post

That’s a swing from Conservative to Labour of just one point, far lower than the swing shown in ComRes’s GB polls (it would be the equivalent of a national poll showing a Conservative lead of five points) suggesting Labour are doing worse in key marginals than in the country as a whole.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/8828?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PollingReport+%28UK+Polling+Report%29

MaxK - 21 May 2014 10:37 - 41037 of 81564

Nice one aldwickk....classy rant :-)

Haystack - 21 May 2014 10:43 - 41038 of 81564

http://news.sky.com/story/1265690/police-to-patrol-more-than-100-polling-stations

Police will be stationed at more than 100 polling stations to combat voter intimidation and fraud at the local and European elections on Thursday, Sky News has learned.

The Electoral Commission has identified 16 areas as being at "high risk" for vote-rigging and bullying.

This includes Tower Hamlets, which in response has introduced what the council described as "the strongest measures to prevent fraud of any authority in London - and one of the most robust in the country".

The council said: "On polling day, police officers will be stationed at all 125 polling stations in the borough for the whole 15 hours of the poll (from 7am to 10pm) to deal with any alleged malpractice or public order issues."

Returning Officer John Williams said they were responding to allegations of intimidation during previous elections.

He said: "In general it has been enthusiastic campaigners gathering outside polling stations and trying to convince electors as they are coming in to vote who they should be voting for and sometimes that can be intimidating for people."

Councils are also investigating irregularities on nomination, voter registration and postal vote forms.

In Tower Hamlets they are not just screening signatures and birth dates on postal votes, but also visiting houses with high numbers of registered voters.

More than 5,000 names have been removed from the electoral register since February.

Pendle, in Lancashire, is another area identified.

Conservative council candidate Abdullah Zaid said activists have in the past coerced vulnerable voters on the doorstep.

He said: "They say, 'how do we know you're voting for us? To assure us you need to do the postal vote applications (now).'

"Then they do the applications themselves and get their signatures and send off the postal votes."

Lib Dem Councillor Tony Greaves, who has campaigned on the issue and sits in the House of Lords, said: "Fiddling postal votes has happened at every local election in Pendle since 2002 and it has taken this long for people and the police to sit up and take notice.

The at-risk areas are mostly Asian communities.

The others are: Hyndburn, Blackburn with Darwen, Burnley and Oldham, Kirklees, Bradford, Calderdale, Derby, Walsall, Birmingham, Coventry, Peterborough, Slough, and Woking.

Apart from Tower Hamlets, no other council is planning to police every polling station.
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