Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

"It is clear that it is the (German) government's aim that the issue of taxes is dealt with in a fair way in the single market," he said, adding that Berlin was waiting to see whether Osborne would present his plans to European finance ministers.


WTF should he?
even while we are/were in EU, we do not have to get brussels approval for our tax regime ........ even VAT levels are different within the member states

Just in from my 'Money Morning' e-mail subscription:

France doesn’t like the EU any more than we do

I think it’s fair to say that most British people would view France as being at the heart of the EU. That’s a) because it is, and b) because when we think of Europe, with both its culture and sophistication, and its bureaucracy and other flaws, is summed up in a semi-mythical vision of France.

Yet when it comes to the EU, the French are almost as ambivalent about it as we are. As Philippe Le Corre noted in the Financial Times the other day, there’s a good chance that France “will follow the UK and become a gravedigger of the European project”.

Opinion polls show that 61% of French people “hold unfavourable views of the EU”. Two-thirds feel that ”the EU has failed them economically”. By contrast to the UK, it’s the young who have been among the hardest hit, with massively high unemployment. “It is likely that they would vote for “Frexit” in a referendum”, says Le Corre.

Given that, it’s no surprise that anti-EU politicians – most notably, Marine Le Pen of the Front National – are growing more popular in France. But it’s not just the far right. The far left Front de Gauche (the clue’s in the name, I guess) has said that Brexit is “first and foremost the failure of the German government, of capitalism, and of successive subservient French governments”.

With a presidential election coming next May, Europe and the country’s relationship with the EU is bound to be a major issue.

Of course, France’s drastic unemployment levels are probably more to do with the country’s restrictive labour policies as they are the fault of the euro. But without the release valve of a flexible currency all of these underlying structural flaws become more apparent.

In an ideal world, that’s not necessarily a bad thing – one argument for having “hard” money is that it forces structural adjustments that should eventually make an economy more productive. But out there in the real world, those structural adjustments fall prey to special interest groups and politics.

That in turn makes it very hard for a politician to balance national and supranational interests. Eventually the choice between the two becomes too stark, and when that happens, it’s the supranational interests that will lose every time.

That’s before we even start talking about the Italians, who apparently are on the verge of telling the EU where to stick its rules on bank bailouts.

Brexit is an opportunity to create a better EU

The point is this: Brexit may seem like a catastrophe for the EU, but when you compare it to some of the other problems heading their way, it’s nothing.

A pragmatic EU (and I firmly believe that there are plenty of pragmatists in the EU – it’s hard to become a top politician if you lack that quality) would figure out a way to use this opportunity.

Yes, you can stick two fingers up to the impudent, unhelpful Brits. But what are you going to do when the Italians – who share your core currency – decide that they want to leave? What’ll you do when the French – one half of the Franco-German heart of the EU – decide that they’ve had enough?

I’d take this chance to work on a plan that keeps them all sweet, to create a more forgiving EU that genuinely works together to create a harmonious relationship between the states.

The sort of EU that would give Greece free rein to leave the euro but offer debt forgiveness and massive financial support for the new drachma. The sort of EU that feels secure enough in its existence that it doesn’t feel it has to steamroll over any and all objections from the citizens of Europe. The sort of EU that sees the voters as its primary concern, rather than an inconvenience.

The sort of EU that any country would want to be part of, in other words.

Can they get to that point? It seems a tall order. But we’ve got more than two years to make a few steps in that direction. And between now and then, France, Italy and all the other potential rebels in the EU are not just going to sit and behave until Britain has been dealt with.

After Brexit, theres' no reason why we can't continue with this.....

It's a sad day to hear of Nigel Farage's resignation, UKIP won't be the
same without him.

Without Nigel Farage there wouldn't have been a referendum...


WELL DONE NIGEL FARAGE!!!

It is a shame that he has left. While he was leader it was even easier to dislike UKIP.

Rubbish, Haystack.

Nigel was a phenominal anti-EU orator, 'telling it how it is' and got pretty poor support from the two senior UK political parties whilst he was compl]aining about the negatives of the EU.

For instance, here is Nigel Farage explaining the pathetic anti-democratic appointment of Jean-Claude Juncker:

He is a rabble rouser and racist. I dislike him intensely. His immigration poster showed what he is like.

as with fred, it's very easy to rant and rave when you have no one to answer to

Screen shots from 1941 Nazi newsreel which shows the forced march of Bessarabian Jews



Nigel's racist poster

Haystack Thats your opinion(in my opinion worthless). But he gave a voice to the many millions that
felt disenfranchised, where has the party(ies) you hancker after don't give
a shit about anyone that dosn't toe the establishment line..

As to that poster, it had been published several times in the past without so
much as a murmour, it was just bad timing, as Nigel Farage said.

But if anyone took the time to peruse that poster you would see that 100%
of those individuals in the picture was young fit MALES, who had left their
own countries to invade the west, and to say they were 'all' Syrian, which
the media did was wrong, they were from Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, etc, etc..

Yes you can put up any emotive picture you like to justify your utter contempt
for someone who stood up for this country, much more then the treacherous
sycophantic pieces of shit that parade themselves in the tory party, who
litterally shit themselves at the mention of UKIP.

UKIP appeals to the lowest common denominator in society. It is no surprise that their only MP is from an area populated by rednecks.

for better or worse, there is no question that without the threat of ukip, a referendum would not have been on any party's manifesto or even agenda

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/07/02/theresa-may-more-popular-gove-even-among-leave-vot/

May more popular even among Leave voters.

Popular across all voters

Remarkably, Theresa May is more popular than Michael Gove among both Remain voters and Leave voters. 64% of Leave voters have a favourable opinion of Theresa May, compared to 51% who view Michael Gove favourably. Among Remain voters there is no contest: Only 5% of people who voted to Remain have a favourable view of Gove, while 49% of Remain voters like Theresa May.

Haystack's found a new love.....on yer bike Dave.

I still prefer Cameron. Theresa May will do and I think will become very good. She hasn't won the leadership yet. The favourite has lost in the last three Conservative leadership contests. David Davies was favourite last time in 2005. There is a lot of double dealing in the parliamentary phase of the election that reduces the number to two.

So that's another spell binding two months of this then , think I'll cut my didgeree do off .

Nominations (110 to get on to the ballot of last 2)-

May – 112
Leadsom – 38
Gove – 26
Crabb – 23
Fox – 9

Leadsom 'I will only have members of the govt in my negotiating team' - tries to squash Farage suggestions of him taking part

Haystack we know -
you hate Farage ,
you hate UKIP,
you hate Corbyn,
you hate Labour ,

you love Dave,
you love Cons ,
you will love new leader ,
you love endless opinion polls .