Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

electionista @electionista · Jun 20
UK - TNS BMRB poll:

LAB 35%
CON 29%
UKIP 23%
LDEM 6%

Manuel,

Typical of a superficial con party voter who go for the packaging and not the content.

Be precise what is it about his features which help you to make your opinion.


At least he is thinking about policies and further than the end of his nose, while Wavy Dave and his motley crew are grasping at straws and sinking fast and waiting to pronounce on their next U-turn.

Even their advisers have given up on Dave the Wonder Dog!


"On the account of Dominic Cummings, adviser and close friend of Michael Gove, the current prime minister is a bumbler surrounded by incompetents and sycophants. Borrowing from what Bismarck said about Napoleon III, Mr Cummings damns David Cameron as "a sphinx without a riddle""


The newspapers have bought Cameron and running a smear campaign to try ans keep him on the lead.

Even the the Junket is laughing at the Eton Mess!

deride as much as you like, for that is your only ability and song sheet

as a dedicated non-voter, i suppose it should come as no surprise that you completely fail to understand that in modern politics you need public presentation and television presence; policies and aims and targets on their own are not remotely enough to carry the day ..... hence, ronnie reagan was brilliant (brainless, but tremendous in front of the camera) whereas alex douglas-home would have been a disaster though i believe a very good statesman and politician

EM comes across as a complete muppet as is shown by the public's perception of him
DM had presence and would have carried public confidence with him

the problem of course was that the unions felt they could manipulate EM but not his brother, so put their considerable weight behind the wrong horse and have found it is actually a donkey

Manuel,

I can see why the con party appeals to you!

Similar in nature to the flash harries of the present day leadership!

Douglas-Home should have stuck to cricket!

--------


But remember Attlee wasn't chosen for his good looks, or charm, but because he had policies which appealed to the voters and they thought he and his party would delivered them.

Which they did.

More importantly they took a long term look at what was needed and planned towards those needs.


Cameron and his crew are being seen to be hollow and more concerned with poncing around on a stage than delivering thought out policies.

Like you they probably can't see to the end of their noses.

They are in it for their own glory! Laughable.

===========

W/see.

in attlee's day, television was in its infancy and public presentation was unheard of ..... try moving forward several decades; you're a risible dinosaur, totally and utterly out of touch with the reality of today

anyway, you might even like trying trying to put a X on a ballot paper one day instead of just telling everyone else what a bunch of idiots they are for voting in whoever it happens to be

Manuel,

You remind me of days gone and outdated ideology and beliefs.

However, perhaps, even an idiotic yobbo like yourself could improve, even though it would probably need putting a ring through your nose.

Unless, of course, you already had one inserted.

Get back to your proper job in the kitchen!

We keep getting these attacks on Ed Milliband but he still maintains a 5 to 6 point lead which would give Labour an overal majority.

Just what dont you get Cynic?????????????

Do you not understand statistics???????

Can you not see the Conservative party as a party of the past.

You cannot even see that the Tories failed to get elected against Brown.

With Ed Milliband in control even though he is not liked as much as he should be the labour party will take the next election with an overal majority and then the Tories are a party of History because of their ageing followers.

Just accept it and get used to being in the wilderness.

I even predict like Fred in 11 years you wont be turning up to vote as it just wont be worth it for Tory supporters.

This was posted on the other board by someone who actually lives and works in Germany (afaik) Sums up the position nicely imo.



PENDRAGON2
22 Jun'14 - 10:29 - 64594 of 64595 0 0


As predicted after the Euro elections, the EU's Social Democrat group have agreed to the predicted stitch up and will be supporting Juncker, following a meeting yesterday hosted by Holland in Paris.

Juncker now has an overall majority of voting member heads of state, not just the Christian Democrats who nominated him. The social democrat Schultz will get his choice of second job, probably as president of the Euro Parliament.

In many ways this should not be a surprise. When you have a currency union, its needs will take priority over the wider EU structure, so the 'two speed Europe' is now in action - Eurozone and the rest. We shouldn't be surprised that the Eurozone is pre-eminent. If the UK had the Euro, a UK gov would take the same position.

The last few weeks for Cameron have been a clear example of the way Merkel works. She will take a position, then talk, listen to other people's arguments, then weigh things up and do what she had decided in the first place.

UK should stop the pretence of having a place at the table and leave on terms comparable to the Turks, Norway and Switzerland, or even Israel, who all have access to the single market.



Toot sweet!

Spot on Max.

Here's the latest cracker from our talking shop host Gideon http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27969885

I watched Osborne's speech this morning about HS2/3. It was very good. We are lucky to have such an excellent Chancellor.

sticky - you may be right or you may be wrong, but assuredly if D instead of E had been labour leader, there'ld be a poll lead in double digits

much more importantly, if people vote for labour, then assuredly they will be voting to stay in eu AND will have to accept ever more interference and worse from brussels, and will have no further say in the matter

for myself, i'ld much rather eu terms were renegotiated as best as possible - perhaps there will be nothing meaningful put on the table - and then have a chance, along with the rest of the country to vote on the matter

There was an anti austerity march in Central London on Saturday. You wouldn't know from the media reporting. It seems to have been ignored by TV and press news. Not that many people turned up. Is this a sign that austerity has worked and has been seen to work.

Wonder why it was ignored by the media?

What has George and Wavy Dave promised them?

Why Egypt has been taken off the growing list of places I won't be visiting any time soon:

More at: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/78f3658a-faa5-11e3-8993-00144feab7de.html#ixzz35SqyUuJU

NB. Hit the link to read a longer version of this article and you will be asked very short unobtrusive simple 'survey type' questions by the FT. After answering these they will grant you 7 days free subscription

Egypt jails Al Jazeera journalists for 7 years
By Claer Barrett in London and Heba Saleh in Cairo
Last updated: June 23, 2014 12:13 pm

Al Jazeera journalists (L-R) Peter Greste, Mohammed Fahmy and Baher Mohamed stand behind bars at a court in Cairo in this June 1, 2014 file photograph. An Egyptian judge sentenced three Al Jazeera journalists on June 23, 2014 to seven years in jail after finding them guilty on charges including helping a "terrorist organisation" by publishing lies. The three include Australian Greste, Al Jazeera's Kenya-based correspondent, and Canadian-Egyptian national Fahmy, bureau chief of Al Jazeera English. A third defendant, Egyptian producer Mohamed, received an additional three-year jail sentence on a separate charge involving possession of weapons.

Three journalists working for the Qatar-owned Al Jazeera news channel have been sentenced to seven years in jail in Egypt on terrorism-related charges, igniting international outrage over the guilty verdict and media restrictions in the country.
The journalists include Peter Greste, an award-winning Australian correspondent, and Mohamed Fadel Fahmy, Al Jazeera’s English channel Cairo bureau chief. Producer Baher Mohamed was given three additional years in prison on a separate charge. All three have been detained since December.

The three have denied the charges, including belonging to and aiding a terrorist organisation, as Cairo has branded the Muslim Brotherhood, and of “manipulating” images to suggest “there is a civil war that threatens to bring down the [Egyptian] state”.

Twenty people are on trial in connection with the case but only nine are in custody – the three journalists, five students and a charity worker. The journalists have said they do not know the other defendants and do not understand why they were being tried together. The remaining 12, which include other foreign journalists, are being tried in absentia.

“This is a devastating verdict for the men and their families, and a dark day for media freedom in Egypt, when journalists are being locked up and branded criminals or ‘terrorists’ simply for doing their job,” said Philip Luther, Amnesty International Middle East and north Africa director.

“The only reason these three men are in jail is because the Egyptian authorities don’t like what they have to say. They are prisoners of conscience and must be immediately and unconditionally released.”

.

Austerity as worked?????????laugh my ass off.

Hays we have only got rid of 1/3rd of the deficit not what was promised by Osbourne, and it as been a total failure built on cuts and Arthur Daley type jobs and policies backed up by lies from the DSS.

Heres todays Ashcroft figures.........hardly supporting austerity and the coalition......

Ashcroft National Poll: Con 28%, Lab 33%, Lib Dem 9%, UKIP 17%
Monday, 23 June, 2014

cynic you still havent grasped my point have you........i give up.

The case for austerity measures rests on the Great Debt Lie and the myth of the structural deficit.

The 2008-9 recession was the worst we have had in this Country, and globally, for sixty years, and it was predicted by no-one – not even Vince Cable. The Labour Government responded to the crisis with fiscal stimulus. From the start of the financial crisis, Labour took decisive and clear action (including temporarily cutting VAT to boost demand), and it has become increasingly clear that it was this decisive action that brought about the green shoots of recovery (Radeke, 2009).

This, combined with the usual effects on GDP of a recession, meant that the budget deficit rose. But without such swift action we simply would not have the signs of tentative recovery that we saw as a result.

So what went wrong? What happened to the green shoots of recovery that were carefully nurtured by the last Labour Government?

That would be the Tory-led Coaliton.

This Government is cutting the very measures that would ensure not only growth in the short-term, but economic security in the future, too. They are portraying their cuts as eliminating “waste” and “necessary”, when in fact they are seriously jeopardising our future economic prosperity: cuts in funding for Regional Development Agencies; scrapping the Future Jobs Fund, which was a success and supported at least 200,000 people back into work through the recession; withdrawing industrial support, for example.

That is before we even begin to discuss the damning, detrimental economic and social implications of the welfare “reforms” (CUTS), and the Localism Bill (more CUTS), and Legal Aid Bill (even more coordinated and carefully planned Tory CUTS that will serve to keep quiet and hide away evidence of the rising numbers of impoverished, destitute and starving victims of all of the other CUTS and subsequent human rights abuses).

And there seems to be very little evidence to support their decisions. No facts, no consultation, no listening to expert advice. Just the ideology of the small state, propped up by notions of “self-reliance” – but only for the poorest of course – being pursued by the Tory right and the Orange Book Liberals.

The Tory budget is highly regressive, hitting the poorest the hardest whilst asking for very little from those at the top.

Here are some facts which demolish the fallacy that the present economic crisis is the result of excessive spending, leading to unsustainable debt:

• Analysis by the Institute of Fiscal Studies has concluded that on the eve of the financial crisis ‘the public finances were in a stronger position than they had been when Labour first came to power in 1997.

• Average annual spending and taxation were both lower as a proportion of GDP under the last 3 Labour Governments (38% and 35.4%) than under the 4 Conservative governments which preceded them (40% and 35.5%).

• National debt was lower as a proportion of GDP at the start of the financial crisis in 2008 (36%) than in 1997, the last year of John Major’s Conservative government (42%). The national debt is forecast to hit 74.7% of GDP this year and peak at 79.9 per cent in 2015-16.

• In 2010, the UK’s national debt as a proportion of GDP (52%) was the second lowest of the G7 countries.

The budget deficit is no more “structural” than an overdraft in your bank account when you spend more than you earn. There is either a real deficit or not, and if there is, then it is due to either excessive spending or an inadequate tax take. Since it can easily be demonstrated that the problem is not the former, then it must be the latter – caused by the financial crisis and consequent recession and likely to be aggravated when taxes are cut later during this parliament to the benefit of high earners, corporations and banks. As The Investors Chronicle states (15th February 2010):

“The idea of a structural deficit serves a political rather than analytical function. It’s a pseudo-scientific concept which serves to legitimate what is in fact a pure judgement call – that borrowing needs cutting.”

Osborne began to revive the myth of the structural deficit in June 2010, when it was becoming clear that the deficit would be under £155 billion, well below the Treasury’s £178 billion estimate made six months earlier. In other words, the deficit was narrowing after Labour increased spending in 2009.

The fact that the US, which has made no serious deficit reductions, has suffered almost the smallest recession of any major developed economy, whereas Ireland and Greece have suffered the worst because of drastic spending cuts further undermines the Government’s claim that radical austerity measures are needed – and shows that Osborne’s main aim is not to reduce the deficit but to accelerate the transfer of wealth to the already very rich.

And if anyone still wants to talk about a “structural” deficit, then they should remember that the last 3 Labour Governments managed to earn enough to cover their spending for 4 of their 13 years in office, whereas Thatcher and Major only managed to balance the books for 2 out of 17 years.

The Coalition continue to deny that alternatives to austerity are viable.

As a Tory lie repetition strategy, this is based on the idea Goebbels had – repeated lies will somehow convince people that they are true. Cameron was busted when he repeatedly told the lie “We are paying down the debt.” Despite being rumbled, the Coalition have stuck with this lie doggedly. The bonus of the lie is that it may undermine the Opposition’s economic credibility, and the Tories particularly delight in the lie that it’s all Labour’s fault because they “overspent” as it further justifies austerity measures and starving public services of Government funding, with our paid taxes, as well as stripping our welfare provision away.

It was the Tories that lost the Moody’s Investors Service triple A grade, despite pledges to keep it secure. Moody’s credit ratings represent a rank-ordering of creditworthiness, or expected loss. The Fitch credit rating was also downgraded due to increased borrowing by the Tories, who have borrowed more in 4 years than labour did in 13.

The Coalition have REALLY messed up the economy. We know it’s a big fat Tory lie that cutting spending at a time of economic recession will re-balance public finances. As many academics and economists have stated, cutting spending when the economy is flat is likely to cause further contraction to the economy, and that will negatively affect public finances, rather than help at all.

The Government will never confess to this because they are so tightly ideologically bound to an übertreiben Neo-Liberalism, no matter what the cost is in human terms, or even in economic terms. What we need is Labour’s expansionary fiscal policies, not contractionary ones. Real, sensible economists know that the only way to address a recession is to grow the economy, and that means more public spending in the short term, to stimulate economic activity, and cutting if needed when the economy is back on the up (which needn’t mean absolute cuts, but relative cuts because the economy is growing).

well that's a definite result then :-)