I am afraid TFC and myself rather highjacked the CHP thread on this subject, so have started a proper one.

Will cut and paste as necessary from CHP, where our opposing stances are self-apparent

have not gone into hiding or even been forcefully repatriated and some of you would seem to wish ...... have been having a quiet lunch with a good pal of mine (soul* - he lives in Canford Cliffs, so a close neighbour of yours).

will park the car and then respond ....... by and large, this has been a sensibly if quite fiercely debated thread ..... thank you all, for it could have become stupidly abusive.

To illustrate the positive side of immigration.Since 1989 in excess of 15,,000 English familys have settled in the French provinces of Bretagne, Poitou and Anjou . And why ? Because all 3 regions suffered from depopulation due to the native French moving to the cities and abroad ( Comme moi -pour l'argent )........Most simply love it as property is comparitevely cheap ,they , and more importantly , their children are safe at ALL times .lt is not uncommon to see kids strolling home from music lessons at ten at night in the dark ..CHILDREN ARE SAFE !!! ...When you ask these English if they would ever return to the UK they look at you as if you are demented .They learn the language and positively thrive ...Unlike the streets of the UK where even well heeled areas suffer at the hands of immigrants who see generousity and decency as a weakness and utterly exploit it . As for inner cities they are responsible for the majority of bestial crime such as rape and aww the mind boggles ..l suggest we give them ONE chance. But once they commit a indictable offence they are gone on the first flight to an unhabited island where they can all commit as many offences to their hearts delight,,,,,,And thats being both charitable and kind....@+ J PS No fillings or need for any treatment at dentist !! . As always ...! ........................................

ALAN - do you expect, or is it even reasonable to expect a new immigrant to assimilate in their entirety the mores of his chosen destination from Day 1? ..... almost a rhetorical question.

my own view , as stated earlier, is that open-door immigration is a recipe for disaster as at the very least there will be "indigestion" as has clearly happened in some locations ...... similarly, positive discrimination and other PC dictats are arguably as destructive as the "evils" they are meant to cure.

i like what would appear to be the Australian system of allowing immigrant entry based on a point system.

however, to make the sweepng statement that swathes to all immigrants come to UK purely to benefit from the NHS ands similar is a nonsense ..... indeed there are an awful lot of so-called indigenous residents who play (abuse) the system for all it's worth.

and so far, not even Alan has answered the question I asked in post 26 ..... "are the 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation Chinese, Asians, WIs, Jews etc still deemed to be "aliens"? ...... if the answer is "of course not", then i would posit that the 1st generation did not "fit in" from Day 1 either, so should they never have been allowed into the country?

Personally Cynic i couldnt give a monkeys if they are 27th generation. They are ALL the same to me.ln saying that i dont include either Chinese or Jews among your list of undesireables . For the most part they are hard working industrious peoples who keep troubles " in house" without posing a threat to the community . lncidentally all Chinese are triad ; but they dont extort the indigenous population as do blackies and Pakistanis ...As much as he maybe currently maligned -.....History will prove Enoch Powell right ........................................................................

does that mean you think they are all aliens and should be forcibly repatriated..... or failing that, exterminated in gas ovens or similar?

can i phone a friend on that one or go 50/50 or even ask the audience ...hehe .................l REPEAT ..Once they commit an indictable offence within the UK they are repatriated without appeal .......................ls that so unreasonable in your eyes . Commit a crime in Pakistan and you will know about it brother ,,,

No sweeping statements from me. I use the term benefits in its broadest sense. Be it the NHS, or the very lax legal system, or the high standard of living.
I replied to your alien question also.
Alien refers not to someones ethnic origin, but to their disposition to their environment. It is, therfore, of their own making, not the environments.
Much of the 1st generation did fit in very well. The current situation is out of control and that is why they do not fit as comfortably.
As for fitting in from day one, I suggest you try to live in a muslim state. You either fit in, obey their customs and show respect to your hosts religions, or you get the first prize of a ride in a police car and a free one way air ticket to anywhere at all. They do not care where.
However if you respect their wishes they are the most generous and warm hearted bunch you could ever meet, which is why their countries are full of immigrants, but without the slightest problem and with little or no damage to their culture.
If we did the same we would be branded racist and a bunch of thugs, but it works and leads to some countries having a 90% migrant population, with none of the problems we associate with migrant communities.
Alan

i wish that were the case, and i previously thought that citizenship and asylum could be withdrawn ...... however, the case of Abu Hamza indicates that is not so ..... the law, possibly or even probably as foisted upon us by Brussels, is thus shown to be a total ass

Here- Here ! Alan ! A well thought out objective posting and executed with the elegance one associates with Alans posts. Which is NOT to say Cynics posts are written any the less elegantly but i simply strongly disagree with him l

hmm! try working in Saudi or even UAE and see what the conditions can be like.

as for fitting in from day 1, few immigrants do or are even able to ..... hence the immigrant enclaves of East London (the ethnic majority changes with time) or Liverpool, or the various Chinatowns, or Brixton etc.

one could just about argue that they do not impinge on broader society, though they must de facto disrupt the immediate locale (Dewsbury, would seem an example!) ..... however, to say that these immigrants assimilate or are assimilated from Day 1 or even quickly would be more than a stretching a point

actually, we are rather straying from the initial question posed in the header.

I worked in France for quite a while, albeit a few years ago, in Paris, Bordeaux, Marseillan & Collioure. The overwhelming opinion of the resident french population (that is the indigenous white/europeans) that all immigrants, regardless of origin, were diluting the traditional way of life in France, to the detriment of the country as a whole. France for the french was the opinion (even though they also wanted to hold on to the colonies which they still have!).
I find it amazing that a few here are quite happy to colonise other countries, forming their own little enclaves, whilst moaning about the influx of exactly the same kind of people to the U.K.
Also, for those people who chose to emmigrate to the Costa Del Crime, good riddance I say. A little british hell to spoil beautiful spanish countyside.

Yep. Worked there Cynic.
Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Oman, RAK, Kuwait, Bahrain and more. Ringside seat for the 911 response and all that.
I know exactly what the conditions are like. I had a friend arrested in RAK for chewing gum. Not that this is against the law, but during Ramadan the police and magistrates found it offensive to their religion.
appeal??? Not a chance.
I joined a darts team where there was an Egyptian and a Bengali who both worked for the same department of government doing the same job. The Egyptian (Basil) was paid 8 times the salary received by the Bengali!! Racist? Absolutely. Against the law?? No way.
I could give many more examples of how the indiginous were treat much better than the immigrants in UAE, but I would bore you. The point is, you accepted it for what it was. You did not bang on the door of Sheik Zayeds palace demanding fair treatment and Sundays off to practice your religion.
In essence, it was the worst racism I have ever seen, it was completely legal and in the open yet the country had only a 10% indiginous population and almost no racial problems or tensions. Strange.
Alan

personally, would rather live in a faulty democracy than even under a benevolent dictatorship, whose benevolence could be withdrawn at a moment's notice.

and to return to the original question ..... yes, in my not at all humble opinion, immigration has an overall beneficial influence on the host nation, notwithstanding the small number of bad apples that will inevitably be included in the mix.

though the UK's virtual open-door policy currently in operation is a disaster (an overstatement), in the fullness of time, which i too hope will not be too far away, some sort of common sense and generally acceptable policy will be implemented..... no doubt the the uber-liberals will jump up and down in horror and the mindlessly prejudiced will rail that it is still far too open, but one can live in hope that the wishes of the thinking majority will prevail.

Al
retv

Now we have someone saying that all British people who emmigrate to Spain are gangsters or Chav's.

Harrycat,

There is a big difference between the British retiring abroad and the asylum seekers & economic migrants in this country

well it wasn't christened the Costa del Crime for nothing ... lol!

' J '

How is that English Rose Lottie, these days ? ....... LOL Ha, Ha,

was rather wondering when you would bring that little gem up ? LOL Seriously. SO sssssssssssh or you will blow my argument out of the sky ,Now play the white man .......@+ J ....Did u see the Utd match ? Enjoyed it (except the result). But rather be in Milans position in returning the san siro . That Carrick is useless.What Fergie saw in him i dont know .......