It is generally much better to split the signal at entry. Ideally, the cabling would run from the external BT junction box by the shortest path straight to the master socket situated next to the router, you would have a new style master socket (NTE-5) with the top half replaced by http://www.adslnation.com/products/xte2005.php, the router plugged into that socket, and the wiring continuing to the extension (voice) sockets without the ADSL signal.

Of course it is illegal to tamper with the BT wiring up to the master socket in a way that would be obvious to BT, and it is illegal to buy an NTE-5 master socket (with BT logo) on eBay to replace an older one yourself. It is however legal to pay BT 100+ to do it all for you :-)

Another possible solution is to split the signal at the master socket, in a different room to the router, and then carry the ADSL signal over a standard telephone pair (or preferably CAT-5e/6 cable) to the router, separately from the voice wiring.

It is also possible to have the router on an extension socket but disconnect the third (ring) wire throughout the house, at both ends of each run. When you use an ADSL filter on a telephone, the filter will generate a ring wire for its telephone. It avoids interference from the ring wire acting as an aerial. Modern phones normally ignore the ring wire anyway. The ring wire was introduced in the UK to stop the tinkling of the bells on telephones throughout the house that happens in other countries when you dial on a pulse dial telephone. Very few people still have pulse dial telephones and so the whole thing is now quite redundant.

It is however all a lot of trouble to go to unless you have house wiring that is introducing signal to noise ratio losses. If you do, then the effect will be impressive. If you don't, it will be marginal. If anyone is in doubt and can produce speed/attenuation/SNR figures on their current setup I can try to advise or of course the forums at ADSLGuide are full of experts.

Kayak, that's brilliant. Thanks. I won't do anything that's illegal or buy anything suitable on ebay, I'd much rather pay BT :-)

Kayak,

Interesting to learn about the belll wire.

We live in a 1902 apartment block. A previous owner installed a separate bell.

Since we introduced ADSL we have had the bell ting as we use, or stop using, a phone. I don't think we had that effect before we got broadband.

I also have a real problem getting any distance out of my wireless modem/router. It barely goes from one room to the next and yet I am constantly told of people getting signals from neighbours houses.

I listen to an AM station for Wake Up to Money whilst shaving and I am aware of masses of interference. Only this morning I carried the radio around the flat trying to diagnose where it was worst in an attempt to source the problem.

My feeling was that if I could find out where the problem arose it might be possible to disconnect something. It did seem worse near door jams and I was surprised as I'd have expected it to be worse near light switches and power points. I'll look at this remote phone bell when I get home this evening.

I'd willingly pay 100 to BT to sort it out - but always worry that it would be money down the drain (a bit like the rogue plumber who wants to descale your boiler instead of re-lighting the pilot light).

Am I on the right track?

TP

You may well be on the right track TP. Tuning an AM radio between stations and listening for background noise is said to be a good way to listen to the ADSL signal. The signal should stop if you unplug the router from the phone socket and turn it off (perhaps after a while).

If it's an old house the telephone wiring may well be a mess particularly if it was added to bit by bit over the years. If you have a modern BT master socket you can sort out the wiring after it yourself if you want. Probably best to rip all the old cable out and start again. There is plenty of stuff on the internet on what wires to connect.

Which brings me to one problem you have, which is that the bell should of course have a broadband filter before it just like the phones! Difficult to do if it's plumbed in. Personally I would just disconnect it or replace it with a telephone socket and phone.

Surprisingly, given what it's trying to do, the frequency used for the signal in wireless routers has a lot of trouble going through walls. Stud partitions are OK but brickwork is a problem. Your old house will have thick brick walls everywhere. The signal will be going through the doorways and up and down the floors, so the people in the flats above and below will get brilliant reception. In a house a lot of people put their router in the loft but I guess you won't be able to do that. Mirrors are another no no apparently. Some of the newer 108Mbps routers handle this sort of situation much better, but that technology is evolving quickly at the moment.

In sevenoaks the wire from the pole to our house was recently replaced with the now normal black multicore stuff (that can carry more than one line). However becasue we were not in when the did it they put a junction box on the wall and connected the internal master socket to it with the end of the old grey wire.

K you dont know wher I can get hold of a length of the BT black muticore do you? I want to do a but or reorganisation ;-)

" to listen to the ADSL signal. The signal should stop if you unplug the router from the phone socket and turn it off (perhaps after a while)."

I'll try that. But aren't I expecting the problem to be my bell cable picking up AM radio?

" Probably best to rip all the old cable out and start again."

Her in charge of decor would shoot me. So that's a nono.

"which is that the bell should of course have a broadband filter before it just like the phones! Difficult to do if it's plumbed in."

Probably encased in decades of emulsion. Can I just disconnect the wires at the bell and protect them with insulting tape? Or do I have to try to work out where it comes into the flat? All our phones have their own bells and this thingie probably goes back to the time when there was just one phone in the front room, which is as far away from the bedroom as it could be. An elderly person could easily not hear the phone in that situation.

"The signal will be going through the doorways and up and down the floors, so the people in the flats above and below will get brilliant reception."

Indeed. In fact I am currently picking up a WiFi signal in the living room from the nearby block of flats - whereas I can't get the signal from my study. It is unprotected by WEP or anything, but I can't rely on that for ever!!

I also used it last night to test a new Hawkins thingie that seems quite powerful
http://www.hawkingtech.com/products/productlist.php?CatID=32&FamID=60&ProdID=198

" but that technology is evolving quickly at the moment."

I tried Mimo but it did little better than my original b/g jobbie.

TP

Would you believe that I'm currently on ADSLGuide trying to get an answer to that question Spaceman :-) The wiring is a mess in the house we've moved into, since it's a big house and bits have been added to the wiring several times over the years. There are several master sockets and two lines have been connected at some time. Two sockets are double sockets and each half of the socket is connected to the same telephone line eventually, but by separate wires taking different routes around the house, aaaargh.

TP yes the problem would be the ADSL picking up AM radio but it will also work in the opposite direction. If that is the problem you can try disconnecting the ring wire at every socket in the house.

Yes you can just disconnect the wires on the bell and insulate.

By the way, Sky boxes are also a known cause of interference, if you have one you might like to try disconnecting that and unplugging it. In any case Sky boxes also need filters if they are connected to the telephone line.

Spaceman, I'll do you a deal. If you fancy climbing up a ladder and removing the old black telephone wire from below the guttering all the way around my house you can have a length for yourself :-)

K.

"if that is the problem you can try disconnecting the ring wire at every socket in the house."

Are they colour coded? If not how do I know which one to disconnect? You did say the ring wire is redundant now, didn't you?

"By the way, Sky boxes are also a known cause of interference,"

I've checked that. I also have a TiVo and that talks to the phone with one of those Thomson devices that works through the ring mains. Cleary a danger, but I've tried disconnecting that as well.

The way my AM radio really buzzed as I carried it, unknowingly at the time, under the bell makes me think this is the first line to follow.

TP

The bell solenoid could be acting as an aerial. Try disconnecting the bell first.

The ring wire isn't necessary provided you have ADSL filters on all the telephones. Even without ADSL most phones don't need the ring wire (but some do). If you disconnect the ring wire it would be polite to reconnect it before you move out of the house. In the sockets the ring wire should be connected to the connector marked 3 and is normally orange/white. The telephone wires will be on 2 and 5, normally blue/white and white/blue.

Thanks K,

Plenty to do on what looks likely to be a wettish weekend.

TP

K thanks for the offer ;-) I have been trying to get some of that cable for a while, I am looking for a friendly BT installer with a few meters spare. I will let you know If I get some ....

TP

If its old wiring the -ve & +ve may be blue & orange with the bell wire green.Brown is (maybe) spare. Used on old sytem called a plan 1A if memory serves. Green wire was needed because the pnones were in parallel but the bells in series.
I used to work in strowger exchanges so know next to sweet FA about telephones :-)

My first wife threw loads of cable out, the ******* *******. Talk about the shirt off my back - Noooooooo don't get me started!!!!!

PS Most installers are friendly with the right kind of persuasion.

B.

Well that adds a challenge. Maybe when I get into the bell box it may become clearer.

Any benefit in using a small voltmeter?

TP

50v dc is what you're looking for on the neg & pos. How old is your wiring? A further complication (you might find old evidence of it) on old installations was that there was an earth for shared service lines :-)))) One sub signalled to the exchange on one leg and one on the other. Probably all ripped out now. Hmmmm thinking about it that could have been what the brown was used for.

It's all flooding back Captain Mainwaring!!!

Kayak. I haven't done the registry addition yet. I started G & T's early yesterday and didn't feel up to it today :-(
A clear head needed for us amateurs methinks.

B.

Any voltage on the bell?

TP

From memory 75v AC but only when someone rings you . It makes your tabs laugh!

So not usually.

Thanks B.

Will have a tinker over the weekend.

TP

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