Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

He is waiting two years for the referendum to give time for negotiations. There are things that the public don't like about the current EU. You have to remember that plenty of people want to stay in the EU (including Cameron). There are also people who will want to stay in if we get better terns. Currently, a vote would be very close with staying in slightly more likely. When people say that they want a referendum now, what they really mean is that they want to leave the EU now. That just isn't going to happen. A realistic scenario is that the Conservatives could win, have discussions with the EU about terms and then have a referendum. Cameron would campaign for staying in because he is in favour of the EU. Anyone who is old enough to remember will know that when we had the referendum to join the EU (Common Market), the government's position was to recommend joining.

It would be very bad strategy for Cameron to have a referendum now. The unique selling point for the Conservatives is that they are the only party that can give a referendum after the GE. If Cameron had a referendum now, it removes a major reason to vote Conservative. It would also give no time for renegotiations. It would also make it difficult for Cameron to recommend staying in.

Dear God in heaven, what drugs are you taking?

LSD

I personally don't accept that it takes two years to negotiate better terms with the EU before the UK public get the referendum they so desperately want. I think that Cameron is fudging because he's waiting for the EZ crisis to blow over in the hope that everything will be forgotten about by 2017. It should take 12 months at most to hold a referendum (they held it that quickly for the referendum on AV in 2011), and, if mainland Europe really wanted the UK to stay, they would make their offer of improved terms within that timeframe.

And I think that Cameron is missing a trick here. If he were to stand up and make a keynote speech within the next couple of months to the effect that, conditional upon him being re-elected with an overall majority in May 2015, he would hold an EU referendum within 12 months at the outside, nearly all of that UKIP vote would return to the nest. It doesn't (or shouldn't) matter whether Cameron wants to stay inside the EU or not himself, or what the outcome of the referendum might be. The fact is that politicians are elected to best represent the wishes of the electorate, and, right now, the British public want a referendum and they're going to vote for the person or party who, they think, will give them a referendum.

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time. Right now, the British people clearly feel that they're being made fools of!

DavCam is blowing smoke up your ass: there is no renegotiation




NO renegotiation on EU migration, says defiant President Jose Manuel Barroso

THERE will be NO negotiation on the EU's freedom of movement laws, European President Jose Manuel Barroso said today, as he revealed David Cameron has yet to put forward any proposals for treaty change.



By: Owen Bennett - Political Reporter
Published: Sun, February 16, 2014


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/460056/NO-negotiation-of-freedom-of-movement-says-defiant-EU-President-Jose-Manuel-Barroso

If we make the Romanians leave the UK, who instead is going to make such a fantastic job of cleaning my car for a mere £5? Well, £6 including the tip.

In the immediate area I have a choice of about 9 of these places too. Seriously, they're all really good.

There is a movement to say that there will not be a referendum. This is the mantra of the left to remove the potential advantage of offering one. It would be impossible for Cameron to cancel a referendum due to the reaction of his party. He knows that his government would not survive for more than a few days.

Later this year there is going to be the referendum enabling Bill brought back to the Commons. It will force the Libs to support it or be seen to vote it down. Cameron has committed himself to using the Parliament Act to force it into law if it loses the vote.

If Cameron gets elected you WILL get a referendum.

What drugs is he on???.

And if a truly wondrous thing happened and UKIP got elected we might still stay in the EU - but bet your last GBP, Euro or US Dollar the terms of doing so would be dramatically altered, or we would be out.

Am I missing something here? Other than having a peaceful relationship (ie. no chance of war!) with the rest of the EU members, what are the main things that mean we must stay as members?

Free movement of people within the EU? No.
Trading Relationships and Rules? Hmmm? No! I don't believe this one. It's rhetoric.

Taken from: Here

This is what they were considered to be for Poland joining:

Political benefits:

Participation in creating of United Europe; Polish representation in EU Institutions; Increase of the stability of democratic system and safety of the state. No boundaries among all EU countries, no passwords or visas necessary, easy travelling, possibility to move to any member country and find a job everywhere in a membership country (free transfer of persons). This would lead also to the tightening of the cultural bonds with the rest of Europe.

Economic benefits:

Free transfer of goods, freedom to provide services, free transfer of capital; Unification of economical laws in all EU countries. In more detail: the EU economy would open the EU borders into Polish products and our market would open to the products of other European countries. This should lead to more competitive market and lowering the prices. The common currency, Euro, will be enforced. It would protect us against the hyperinflation and instability on the monetary market, in banks and saving accounts.
Change of the structure of the farms from many small farms to less bigger farms with better equipment and efficiency. Increase of the specialization in the farming. Our farmers would participate in a system of subvention, the same that benefits the Western European farmers.

Social benefits:

Poland will approach European standards in the aspect of the safety of its citizens, job safety, health, education, information and the higher quality of life in the general aspect. Polish students could participate in the educational programs which give stipends for studying abroad. Children of people who would be working abroad would be able to attend local schools. But they would also be encouraged to develop their knowledge about their country of origin.

Environmental benefits:

Poland will implement European ecological norms that will improve the environment and the quality of the life of our society. The ecology-friendly technologies will be implemented as well as the most rational and effective use of rough materials and the energy.

Haystack,

I know that. You know that. But the problem facing Cameron right now is that the public don't even understand what all the gobbledegook about the EU Referendum Enabling Bill means, vis-a-vis the posts from Maxk et al on this thread.

The public just want their referendum now, they mistakenly think that Cameron is the person to blame for them not getting their referendum now, and, as a result of the accompanying negative publicity, I really do think that Cameron needs to go on a PR offensive of his own pdq to explain things about the EU in simple talk to Joe Public that they will understand, in an attempt to quell the rising in the ranks and to get some folks back on-side before it's too late.

Eurosceptic Tory MP Chris Kelly quits

Conservative MP for Dudley South wishes Ukip defector Douglas Carswell best of luck as he joins list of party departures



Rowena Mason, political correspondent


theguardian.com, Monday 1 September 2014 12.23 BST



http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/01/eurosceptic-tory-conservative-mp-chris-kelly-quits

Hilary.

Cameroon has had over 4 years to do his enabling act.

Why now?

Well, he won't actually need an act if he's returned with a majority. But this is a Private Member's bill which wasn't passed in an earlier session of Parliament (as happens with nearly all Private Members bills), and Cameron has promised to re-introduce it during the next session.

As I said, he doesn't need to re-introduce it, it will almost certainly still fail to get through the commons, and it might end up being worthless even in the very unlikely event that it does get through, but it should be taken as a measure of his intent towards the EU nonetheless, as his plan is to force a vote and expose the LibDem and Labour MPs who will inevitably vote against it.

Explanation from Huff Post and follow the bill's progress

He'd better get the enabling act then, cos theres no way he is going to win outright.

In who's name are these health Nazi's working?




Ashya King's entire family banned from seeing him as part of 'inhuman' treatment after he is made a ward of court

Five-year-old cancer patient's family fear his condition is deteriorating because of his lack of contact with family members



By Nicola Harley, Madrid, Fiona Govan in Malaga and Gordon Rayner

7:02PM BST 01 Sep 2014





Ashya King’s entire family has been banned from visiting him in hospital in Spain as part of “inhuman” restrictions placed on them after the five-year-old cancer patient was made a ward of court by a judge.


Ashya’s parents Brett and Naghemeh remain in custody in Madrid, and could be in jail until Thursday after an extradition hearing was postponed yesterday. Their six other children are unable to visit their brother, who is under police guard in a hospital in Malaga, and they fear his health may be deteriorating because he is likely to be afraid and “confused”.


David Cameron gave his personal backing to the Kings yesterday, saying the couple were only trying to “do the very best for” their son, while other senior MPs accused the British authorities of “criminalising” the family with their “heavy-handed” approach.


Hampshire Police issued a European Arrest Warrant for Mr and Mrs King on suspicion of child neglect last week after the couple removed Ashya from Southampton General Hospital without the consent of doctors who had been treating him for a brain tumour. The couple were found and arrested on Saturday.


It has emerged that Portsmouth City Council successfully applied to a High Court judge for a temporary wardship order on Friday at the request of the hospital, ordering Ashya to be presented for medical treatment.



More: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/11068877/Ashya-Kings-entire-family-banned-from-seeing-him-as-part-of-inhuman-treatment-after-he-is-made-a-ward-of-court.html

Disgraceful, uncaring and heavy handed, IMHO. What cruel bastards the authorities can be!

What a poor little kid to be deprived of seeing any member of his family, including his six brothers and sisters, his mummy and his daddy.

I do hope the little chap doesn't become so utterly unhappy, frightened and sad, that he decides to stop fighting for his little life, 'give up the ghost' and just curl up and die.

How utterly sad!

There surely has to be a better way.

This is an odd case. The father deserves consideration. However, he asked the hospital about the proton beam therapy and they said it was not suitable in this case. The UK does allow that treatment and funded 90 out of 120 requests. The father went off and looked at the Internet. He found places in Switzerland, Czech Republic and others where he could get treatment. This was despite it being against the clinical advice. He was told by the doctor that if he persisted then the hospital would apply for a court order to place the child under control of the court. The father then removed the child and the hospital called the police as they considered the child to be in danger. They did not know what the father would do. The child had just had a brain operation to remove a tumour and was eating through a tube. They were presented with a father who removed his child from treatment on the basis of something that he found on Google. It sounds like the hospital did the right thing.

It has become a cause celebre because the father is educated and coherent. Of course that doesn't stop him from being wrong.

not that i've really followed this, but i believe the parents are JWs who will not permit many medical procedures and certainly not blood tranfusions

JWs permit all medical procedures but not blood transfusions which makes major operations problematic. The courts are clear on this, in as much that they will allow the hospital to give transfusions to children against the wishes of family. The brain tumour was diagnosed in 2008. The hospital says recovery chances are 70-80%.