Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Some in politics, some on this board.

-=====-

Is Freda standing up for Gypsies?

well fred, i hope you manage to pass through the eye of the needle, even though i very much doubt it
in any case, is suspect your supercilious, pompous self-righteousness will still get you cast into the outer darkness

Manuel,

Pardon.

I am told self-awareness in a useful thing.

You should try it sometime.

I told you everyone thought you were a dick Fred :)

Oh and by the way you didn't defend the attacker in Munich ,was that in case he was a white German (he was not)

Dumbo,

I did wonder, if the perpetrator of the recent "murders" in Munich, was a deranged redneck, similar, in many ways, to what my perception of you is becoming.

However, I can see a point and benefits of being intolerant of opinions different to your own. Enjoy the positioning.

Again, I can understand a seeming glee, when you jump on an incident, if it supports your ideology, whether or not, the incident is falsely reported or interpreted.

Keep it up.

PS,

By the way, the colour of the perpetrator's skin, or nationality, does not make the crime committed any better, or worse.

But may be considered when trying to apprehend him and deliberating on the motivations for his crimes.

(Purely, opinion.)

Jump on an incident , here he goes again ,defending terrorists .

As for being a redneck, is that because i am concerned about the amount of attacks across Europe committed by Muslims ? if so then yes i am a deranged redneck ,rather that than your last sentence above where you again seem to be defending them.

shouldn't really be amazed, but FOSF sneers at anyone who disagrees with him - on principle of course - and at the same time fails to see the relevance to himself of "Intolerance is the most socially acceptable form of egotism, for it permits us to assume superiority without personal boasting."

clearly he fails to register that the cap fits perfectly, but then nowt so blind as those who cannot see

Just bad luck?


http://news.sky.com/story/travellers-face-fourteen-hour-delays-at-dover-10510139

France, BVA poll:

Le Pen (FN-ENF) 29% ↑
Sarkozy (LR-EPP) 23% ↑
Hollande (PS-S&D) 13%
Bayrou (MoDem-ALDE) 13%
Mélenchon (FG-LEFT) 13% ↓

Lucky France do not use first past post. Le Pen will still lose heavily.

Just had a brilliant night in my town center, live band playing songs from
the 80's, 90's, UB40 etc (pity no rock and roll), can still put the young'uns
to shame when it comes to strutting my stuff.

Sorry i had to LEAVE early, I don't like having to give my hard earned to muslim
taxi drivers.

To deliver Brexit, Ukip must rise again

Arron Banks


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/23/to-deliver-the-brexit-we-voted-for-ukip-must-rise-again


If we let her, Theresa May will deliver a watered-down version of what we asked for. That’s why Nigel Farage’s people’s army needs to stay on the case


‘News of Theresa May’s coronation saw Ukip’s membership rocket by over a thousand in a single day. All over social media we can see Conservatives trading in their blue membership cards for purple ones.’


Saturday 23 July 2016 07.00 BST


So, the politicians have crowned a new prime minister. Theresa May, a remain supporter responsible for the greatest increase in immigration in Britain’s history, may well be popular with a largely Europhile Conservative parliamentary party still struggling to accept its resounding rejection by Conservative voters on 23 June – but she would probably have struggled against the Brexiteer Andrea Leadsom if it had been allowed to go to a membership vote.

She is, in a way, a kind of reverse Corbyn: the Labour leader has a huge mandate from the party membership but no mandate among the party elites, while May has a huge mandate from the party elites and no mandate from the party membership.


To listen to the media luvvies who have invested a lot of time (and a lot of lunches) in May, her triumph was all about experience. She has been widely lauded as one of Britain’s longest-serving home secretaries – yet very little has been said about the collapse in police morale or the running down of our border force and coastguard in that time. Indeed, the largely positive assessment of May’s tenure as home secretary, based on time served rather than track record, speaks volumes about how far the standards we set for those in public life have fallen.


But the deed has been done. And without a single vote cast outside the magic circle of Westminster, we have a new premier. This shabby state of affairs, in my view, presents a major opportunity to bring together Nigel Farage’s people’s army – those conservatives who actually believe in Britain, and the patriotic working-class voters who rejected the Blairite left on referendum day, united either within Ukip or a new political movement.

Fortunately, thanks to the pressure brought to bear on the incoming administration by Leave.EU, the new prime minister has had to give key posts to excellent leave ministers, including David Davis and Liam Fox – talented politicians who, unlike Michael Gove, Dominic Cummings and the rest of the self-regarding Vote Leave cabal, were willing to work with us and with Ukip to achieve a goal bigger than themselves.


Even so, news of May’s coronation saw Ukip’s membership rocket by over 1,000 in a single day. All over social media, we can see hundreds of Conservatives trading in their blue membership cards for purple ones. Why? Because Britain backed Brexit, and no matter how strenuously the remain campaigners who are responsible for delivering it insist they will respect the vote, leave supporters simply don’t believe them.

And this discontent goes beyond Conservative members who are rightly miffed at being stitched up with a remain MP as leader after they voted for Brexit: just look at the shambolic state of the Labour party.


First, its working-class voters backed Brexit in a big way. Where do they look for representation now, never mind leadership? Corbyn may have been a reluctant remainer, but – foolishly – he allowed the Blairites to twist his arm for the sake of party unity (for all the good it did him). If he had stuck by his Eurosceptic principles and left the Labour party officially non-aligned, he would have been well placed to take the credit for the Brexit vote and been strengthened against his enemies in the parliamentary party.

Instead, he’s ended up in the worst position possible, having backed remain but failed to deliver Labour voters. With some in his party now bleating that the referendum result was “advisory and non-binding” and calling for parliament to overturn it, it is more clear than ever to working people that the Labour party is now run by and for a metropolitan elite, and does not speak for them.

As for the Liberal Democrats, they’re now campaigning on a platform of taking Britain back into the EU before we’ve even left it, desperate to regain some relevance by appealing to the spoiled millennials throwing protests outside parliament.


So now, more than ever, the country needs Ukip to step up, or for a new movement to step forward. We won’t achieve anything by tempering ourselves to create another bland, centrist party. We need to lower the barriers to entry for politics, and reach out to new audiences online, as Beppe Grillo’s revolutionary Five Star Movement has done in Italy.

Leave.EU has paved the way with its pioneering social media effort, which has over 1 million followers and supporters. The articles and clips we shared alongside our own original content and videos reached a weekly audience of 10 to 15 million, many of whom would never dream of tuning into the Daily Politics or poring over the newspapers.

While ignored by the traditional media, which we were bypassing, internal polling suggests that this new way of doing politics made all the difference to the final result on 23 June.

We now need to push it further, lowering prices for party membership, putting more control over the party in the hands of the grassroots, and reaching into areas of the country that the mainstream parties have long forgotten or taken for granted.



We need to show the public how we, and they, were right to hold their nerve and stick their necks out for Brexit, even with all the combined powers of the political class, media establishment and corporate interests howling against us. More than that, we need to empower people to help shape the new Britain that Brexit has made possible, pushing for a Swiss-style model of direct democracy, which allows citizens to propose their own laws and veto the schemes of the politicians.

Britain has its brightest days in front of it, but only if we realise that winning this referendum was not the final hurdle. We have a long way to go before a real Brexit happens, and will have to travel even further before we can realise all the opportunities it allows.

Ukip, or a new movement that combines the best in that party with other forces that came together for the referendum, represents our best hope of completing that journey.

I'll say it again ,if she does a deal that allows the free movement of people or even one with the so called emergency brake they will lose the next election and you will see a massive rise in UKIP votes .

I thought is Boris at first.

jimmy and others - what do you actually want to achieve through brexit? ..... more importantly, do you think uk should abandon any chance of dealing with eu without (probably hefty) tariff surcharges?

finally, what do you think can realistically be achieved?

The offers are coming through already c.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/24/tory-mps-react-with-fury-as-eu-leaders-consider-uk-emergency-bra/



Not good enough, but a start.

nowhere near as evasive as fred, but what chance of answering the questions i raised?

I want out c, trade only. No strings!

If Canada can do it, why not us?