Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Just bad luck?


http://news.sky.com/story/travellers-face-fourteen-hour-delays-at-dover-10510139

France, BVA poll:

Le Pen (FN-ENF) 29% ↑
Sarkozy (LR-EPP) 23% ↑
Hollande (PS-S&D) 13%
Bayrou (MoDem-ALDE) 13%
Mélenchon (FG-LEFT) 13% ↓

Lucky France do not use first past post. Le Pen will still lose heavily.

Just had a brilliant night in my town center, live band playing songs from
the 80's, 90's, UB40 etc (pity no rock and roll), can still put the young'uns
to shame when it comes to strutting my stuff.

Sorry i had to LEAVE early, I don't like having to give my hard earned to muslim
taxi drivers.

To deliver Brexit, Ukip must rise again

Arron Banks


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/23/to-deliver-the-brexit-we-voted-for-ukip-must-rise-again


If we let her, Theresa May will deliver a watered-down version of what we asked for. That’s why Nigel Farage’s people’s army needs to stay on the case


‘News of Theresa May’s coronation saw Ukip’s membership rocket by over a thousand in a single day. All over social media we can see Conservatives trading in their blue membership cards for purple ones.’


Saturday 23 July 2016 07.00 BST


So, the politicians have crowned a new prime minister. Theresa May, a remain supporter responsible for the greatest increase in immigration in Britain’s history, may well be popular with a largely Europhile Conservative parliamentary party still struggling to accept its resounding rejection by Conservative voters on 23 June – but she would probably have struggled against the Brexiteer Andrea Leadsom if it had been allowed to go to a membership vote.

She is, in a way, a kind of reverse Corbyn: the Labour leader has a huge mandate from the party membership but no mandate among the party elites, while May has a huge mandate from the party elites and no mandate from the party membership.


To listen to the media luvvies who have invested a lot of time (and a lot of lunches) in May, her triumph was all about experience. She has been widely lauded as one of Britain’s longest-serving home secretaries – yet very little has been said about the collapse in police morale or the running down of our border force and coastguard in that time. Indeed, the largely positive assessment of May’s tenure as home secretary, based on time served rather than track record, speaks volumes about how far the standards we set for those in public life have fallen.


But the deed has been done. And without a single vote cast outside the magic circle of Westminster, we have a new premier. This shabby state of affairs, in my view, presents a major opportunity to bring together Nigel Farage’s people’s army – those conservatives who actually believe in Britain, and the patriotic working-class voters who rejected the Blairite left on referendum day, united either within Ukip or a new political movement.

Fortunately, thanks to the pressure brought to bear on the incoming administration by Leave.EU, the new prime minister has had to give key posts to excellent leave ministers, including David Davis and Liam Fox – talented politicians who, unlike Michael Gove, Dominic Cummings and the rest of the self-regarding Vote Leave cabal, were willing to work with us and with Ukip to achieve a goal bigger than themselves.


Even so, news of May’s coronation saw Ukip’s membership rocket by over 1,000 in a single day. All over social media, we can see hundreds of Conservatives trading in their blue membership cards for purple ones. Why? Because Britain backed Brexit, and no matter how strenuously the remain campaigners who are responsible for delivering it insist they will respect the vote, leave supporters simply don’t believe them.

And this discontent goes beyond Conservative members who are rightly miffed at being stitched up with a remain MP as leader after they voted for Brexit: just look at the shambolic state of the Labour party.


First, its working-class voters backed Brexit in a big way. Where do they look for representation now, never mind leadership? Corbyn may have been a reluctant remainer, but – foolishly – he allowed the Blairites to twist his arm for the sake of party unity (for all the good it did him). If he had stuck by his Eurosceptic principles and left the Labour party officially non-aligned, he would have been well placed to take the credit for the Brexit vote and been strengthened against his enemies in the parliamentary party.

Instead, he’s ended up in the worst position possible, having backed remain but failed to deliver Labour voters. With some in his party now bleating that the referendum result was “advisory and non-binding” and calling for parliament to overturn it, it is more clear than ever to working people that the Labour party is now run by and for a metropolitan elite, and does not speak for them.

As for the Liberal Democrats, they’re now campaigning on a platform of taking Britain back into the EU before we’ve even left it, desperate to regain some relevance by appealing to the spoiled millennials throwing protests outside parliament.


So now, more than ever, the country needs Ukip to step up, or for a new movement to step forward. We won’t achieve anything by tempering ourselves to create another bland, centrist party. We need to lower the barriers to entry for politics, and reach out to new audiences online, as Beppe Grillo’s revolutionary Five Star Movement has done in Italy.

Leave.EU has paved the way with its pioneering social media effort, which has over 1 million followers and supporters. The articles and clips we shared alongside our own original content and videos reached a weekly audience of 10 to 15 million, many of whom would never dream of tuning into the Daily Politics or poring over the newspapers.

While ignored by the traditional media, which we were bypassing, internal polling suggests that this new way of doing politics made all the difference to the final result on 23 June.

We now need to push it further, lowering prices for party membership, putting more control over the party in the hands of the grassroots, and reaching into areas of the country that the mainstream parties have long forgotten or taken for granted.



We need to show the public how we, and they, were right to hold their nerve and stick their necks out for Brexit, even with all the combined powers of the political class, media establishment and corporate interests howling against us. More than that, we need to empower people to help shape the new Britain that Brexit has made possible, pushing for a Swiss-style model of direct democracy, which allows citizens to propose their own laws and veto the schemes of the politicians.

Britain has its brightest days in front of it, but only if we realise that winning this referendum was not the final hurdle. We have a long way to go before a real Brexit happens, and will have to travel even further before we can realise all the opportunities it allows.

Ukip, or a new movement that combines the best in that party with other forces that came together for the referendum, represents our best hope of completing that journey.

I'll say it again ,if she does a deal that allows the free movement of people or even one with the so called emergency brake they will lose the next election and you will see a massive rise in UKIP votes .

I thought is Boris at first.

jimmy and others - what do you actually want to achieve through brexit? ..... more importantly, do you think uk should abandon any chance of dealing with eu without (probably hefty) tariff surcharges?

finally, what do you think can realistically be achieved?

The offers are coming through already c.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/24/tory-mps-react-with-fury-as-eu-leaders-consider-uk-emergency-bra/



Not good enough, but a start.

nowhere near as evasive as fred, but what chance of answering the questions i raised?

I want out c, trade only. No strings!

If Canada can do it, why not us?

you're right albeit that it took many years to negotiate and i think is still not formally adopted
of course the canadian economy is very small and would not threaten european companies in the same way as british ones might


hmm!
further investigation shows that all might not be as rosy (for all) as you might think
certainly the (very long) negotiations were carried out in total secrecy- why would that be? - and the following is said to be part of the deal

CETA includes the toxic investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS) mechanism, which allows companies to sue governments over any new law or policy that might reduce their profits in future. In a public consultation held in Europe, over 97% of respondents rejected the introduction of this new power for business. Yet the EU has gone ahead with it anyway, and CETA will introduce ISDS not only for Canadian companies but also for any US firms with offices in Canada (which is most of them).


by implication, that would knock on the head any legislation that prevented companies moving around their profits as they currently do, to avoid taxation at source of sale

no strings?
not quite as it seems it seems

The volume of trade is expected to be low. It has taken about 10 years to discuss and has been put on hold because of Brexit.

cynic ,i think you know what i want with regards to the EU ,Max's Telegraph article above is where i stand ,i want out as we voted ,i want control of all out laws ,money and above all our borders ,i do not want any European able to just arrive here and have the same right as you and me ,it's crazy.

It looks like Brexit is open to discussions, but also open to plenty of blood due to immigrant and refugees, new and old........

Syrian refugee, 21, hacks PREGNANT woman to death with a machete and injures two others before hero BMW driver runs him over in latest attack to shock Germany

Angela Merkel to face new backlash over open door immigration policy after new German attack by Syrian refugee

Tonight a Syrian refugee wielding a machete has killed a pregnant woman and injured two other people before being arrested by police. Last year one million migrants came to Germany.......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/mailonsunday/index.html

A machete attack by a Syrian asylum-seeker has left one woman dead and two other people injured, police in south-western Germany say.
Witnesses said the attack happened after an argument developed between the man and the woman in the town of Reutlingen, near Stuttgart.
Police said the attacker had been arrested and there was no indication that it was terrorist attack.
-------------------

They are quick to dismiss a terrorist attack ,maybe it was not but look what they (the migrants) have brought with them ,Merkel does not want any of these horrific murders labelled as terrorist attacks .

Have a look at the reasons for and numbers killed Hungerford and Dunblane School Murders.

Jimmy

Any thoughts on Brits living a new life in homes they've bought in, say France, Spain, Italy.

TM is keeping these people on the hop because it's the EU who have the power over their lives.

But just imagine how they are thinking and similarly, those people too from, say Poland in the EU and who have bought a house: he's an engineer, she's a nurse, the kids are in a good school nearby and the both of them are worried sick about losing everything.

There's lots to discuss and it's not just to do with trade deals and immigration limits.

They will be fine. The ones that might be sent back will be the ones who came here as economic migrants without skills and have never worked, just claimed benefits.