cynic
- 20 Oct 2007 12:12
rather than pick out individual stocks to trade, it can often be worthwhile to trade the indices themselves, especially in times of high volatility.
for those so inclined, i attach below charts for FTSE and FTSE 250, though one might equally be tempted to trade Dow or S&P, which is significantly broader in its coverage, or even NASDAQ
for ease of reading, i have attached 1 year and 3 month charts in each instance
2517GEORGE
- 22 Jan 2010 14:55
- 4692 of 21973
You were asking too much for them HC ha! ha! I'm on a sizeable loss on CRA so brought the average down a bit, still a few bob to make up though. I think it's make or brake for them this year, good luck with your own holdings.
2517
required field
- 22 Jan 2010 14:56
- 4693 of 21973
I don't want to be a shorter killjoy but I think that this drop is just a pullback albeit temporary....recovery could come as early as next week.....we must ask ourselves : why are the markets dropping ?....big bad news ! not really apart from Haiti....and unemployment, so my guess is a rebound from this drop.
cynic
- 22 Jan 2010 15:35
- 4694 of 21973
quite difficult to call ..... it's very worrying when stocks like Google paste fantastic results and get walloped ..... there's also been a slew of poor/bad economic news ..... finally, there is a concern that the recovery will be tempered as gov'ts recall at least some of the cash that was being ladled out a few months ago and china, in particular, tightens the economic pursestrings
dealerdear
- 22 Jan 2010 15:44
- 4695 of 21973
I'm starting to wonder whether we have got some forced selling again by an institution/hedge fund in trouble. Some of the sp's look a little odd to me.
cynic
- 22 Jan 2010 16:09
- 4696 of 21973
when the shit hits the fan, everything and anything gets sold off indiscriminately ..... not much different with the reverse
cynic
- 22 Jan 2010 16:21
- 4697 of 21973
however, it's looking as though Dow will end the week positively .... if so, look for 10485 ..... from memory, that needs to be breached to revive the upward trend
dealerdear
- 22 Jan 2010 16:31
- 4698 of 21973
lets hope so. What a recovery by the miners!
In particular, XTA and AQP
jimmy b
- 22 Jan 2010 20:32
- 4699 of 21973
DOW looks to be tanking .
required field
- 22 Jan 2010 21:03
- 4700 of 21973
I'm hoping for some blue days next week ....hope this drop peters out.
cynic
- 22 Jan 2010 21:41
- 4701 of 21973
truly awful -216
monday will be bloodbath
required field
- 24 Jan 2010 12:51
- 4702 of 21973
Might be an initial drop followed by recovery.....it can't drop forever because economies are slowly pulling out of the recession even thought it might take the whole of this year and part of the next. The stockmarket always looks at least 6 months ahead.
cynic
- 24 Jan 2010 13:29
- 4703 of 21973
quite a diff call, as it's certainly all too easy to get sucked into some panic-selling, and then being too shaken to re-buy on the bounce
2517GEORGE
- 24 Jan 2010 18:40
- 4704 of 21973
rf what is going to drive the markets higher? Stockmarkets have been a beneficiary of QE and the low interest rates, with QE about to cease and interest rates on the rise, not to mention fancy earnings expectations or the higher tax burden we will have to shoulder, I see nothing to sustain it's current level, let alone move higher.
2517
halifax
- 24 Jan 2010 19:03
- 4705 of 21973
Isn't the coming general election going to affect the way the FTSE performs as time runs out for Brown?
cynic
- 24 Jan 2010 19:08
- 4706 of 21973
yes, though that and the feelgood factor it will engender, is somewhat peripheral and certainly short-lived
cynic
- 25 Jan 2010 04:11
- 4707 of 21973
for what it's worth, and just maybe a reflection of F/E trade, IG indicating today as i write
FTSE -60 @ 5245
DOW +72 @ 10240
Gold +5.35 @ $1098
US light crude unchanged @ $74.50
splat
- 25 Jan 2010 07:47
- 4708 of 21973
yes, it could be an interesting day. DAX and FTSE indicating to open far less lower than the predictions at 21.00 on Friday night. Whether it stays that way remains to be seen.
HARRYCAT
- 25 Jan 2010 13:23
- 4709 of 21973
DOW futures currently +63. I wonder how long that will hold once trading gets under way? Just happy to watch today; No position.
Balerboy
- 25 Jan 2010 16:52
- 4710 of 21973
Beware the 4 new asset bubbles
By Shawn Tully, senior editor at largeJanuary 25, 2010: 11:02 AM ET
NEW YORK (Fortune) -- Here we go again.
Less than two years after the housing market collapsed, the U.S. economy is threatened by a new bubble in asset prices. This time, four billowing balloons are hovering: two commodities -- gold and oil -- stocks, and government bonds.
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Don't be fooled into thinking that last week's 5% drop in the S&P, and the recent sell-off in oil, remotely makes them fairly valued, let alone bargains. Equities and commodities, as well as Treasuries, which actually rallied as stocks dropped, still have a long way to fall. The reason: They've already seen huge run-ups that put their prices far above their historic averages, and far above the levels justified by fundamentals.
Two examples: Most companies can't possibly grow earnings fast enough to support their lofty valuations, and oil and gold are so expensive that we'll see what high prices always bring, a surge in new supply. That makes a price-pounding glut inevitable.
Since the start of 2009, oil has returned to the danger zone by jumping 63% to $75 a barrel, and gold has risen more than 20% to set astounding new records by climbing above $1,100 an ounce. After briefly returning to historically normal valuations in March, stocks are now selling at price-to-earnings multiples 40% above their historic range of 14, and 10-year Treasuries are so pricey that they yield 1.5% less than they did in 2007.
What's causing this resurgence of speculative fervor? One view blames the same policy that caused the real estate rampage -- incredibly low interest rates that are flooding the banks with cheap funds that, in theory, are available for loans. (The current Fed target rate is between 0 and 0.25%.)
"Investors can borrow at extremely low rates to buy assets," says Brian Wesbury, a monetary specialist at mutual fund manager First Trust. "So they're using cheap debt to bid up prices. The Fed's expansionary policies are making assets look a lot less risky than they really are."
Other prominent economists dispute that we're in bubble territory, at least right now. Allan Meltzer, the distinguished monetarist at Carnegie Mellon, argues that even though banks are loaded with cheap money, they aren't lending -- which is why we have a credit crunch. "I would be a lot more concerned if loan demand were higher," says Meltzer.
The one asset that definitely isn't bubbling is housing. There, prices have fallen to a level where new buyers buy a house for the same total monthly cost as rental. That's gravity operating.
So how do you spot a bubble? My view is that we're now seeing the same signs that exposed the frenzy in real estate: prices flying far above their historic averages, measured either in inflation-adjusted dollars (commodities) or as a ratio of the income they produce (stocks and Treasuries). Watch for gravity to take over, just as it did in housing.
Treasuries
The rate on the 10-year Treasury bill is now a mere 3.6%, well below the 5.5% rate that it averaged between 1993 and 2007, a period where inflation ran at an annual 3% clip, meaning that the "real rate" after inflation, stood at about 2.5%.
So let's assume that future inflation also averages 3%, about where it stood in the second half of 2009. At today's prices, Treasuries are offering a real yield of just 0.6% -- 1.9 points below our 14-year average.
But as the economy recovers and the threat of inflation causes the Fed to tighten monetary policy by raising rates, the yield could rise to 5.5%, handing investors a big loss. Reminder: When yields rise, bond prices fall.
Yet even that scenario is optimistic. Given the huge deficits from the bailouts, it's likely that investors will want a far bigger cushion for expected inflation -- which suggests, says Wesbury, that the yield on 10-year bills could go over 6% in 2011.
Oil
At around $75 a barrel, oil may look like a bargain compared to the record $148 in mid-2007. But we've simply moved from an immense bubble to a moderate one.
For oil, as in all commodity markets, the highest-cost unit that customers are willing to buy to "clear the market" sets the price. Indeed, prices can go far above cost for short periods, since it takes time for producers to drill new wells or because they hoard inventories.
So how much are oil companies paying to produce the world's most expensive barrels of oil? A good estimate is $55 to $60 a barrel. That's what it costs Anadarko Petroleum (APC, Fortune 500) to extract oil from deep wells in the Gulf of Mexico, according to Anadarko CEO Jim Hackett.
Hence, the world's highest-cost producers are now earning 30% to 40% margins. It won't last; to take advantage of the prices, oil companies will ramp up production, and that extra supply will cause prices to fall back into the $55 range, or even lower.
Gold
Investors are rushing to gold, because they rightly fear far higher inflation in the next couple of years and want to hedge against both rising prices and a declining dollar with a commodity that, they claim, has a fixed supply.
Since early 2009, the price has jumped to $1,100 an ounce from $875, triple its average price between 1990 and 2004. Yet the supply of gold is far more fluid than the gold bugs admit, partly because mining companies are investing heavily to increase production.
The real threat: Prices are so high all over the world that people who once treasured their gold jewelry are now rushing to sell it. Swiss refiners are offering irresistible prices for bracelets and brooches, "cash-for-gold" stores are in Chicago malls, and suburbanites are hosting Tupperware-style parties where neighbors show up to hock their gold teeth.
When this happened in the early 1980s with silver, prices plummeted from $50 to $15 in less than a year. Look for gold to end up below $500 an ounce within two years.
Stocks
Let's assume that investors want a 10% return from stocks (a 7% real return plus 3% gains from inflation). But at current prices, there is no way that the S&P can deliver those kind of gains in future years.
Here's why: Think of the S&P as one company that provides a total return in two components, a dividend yield and a capital gain. Together, the two should equal 10%. But the two are inversely correlated. The lower the dividend yield, the higher the earnings growth rate must be to get you to that 10%. When yields are extremely low, those growth rates become mathematically impossible.
Right now, the P/E multiple for the S&P is an extremely high 20, based on a formula developed by economist Robert Shiller that removes the constant gyrations that can under or overstate the ratio, and the dividend yield is just over 2%. So to hit that 10%, earnings must rise 8% -- assuming 3% inflation, 5% annually in real terms.
But earnings tend to track GDP, which rises about 3% a year over long periods, though far more slowly in a recession. So 3% real GDP growth isn't nearly enough to lift profits 5%. That implies that stock prices must drop sharply: A fallback to their historic P/E of around 14 would require a 29% correction, taking the S&P from its current level of 1,092 to around 770.
"Stocks will disappoint us if we buy them when they're expensive and delight us if we buy them when they're cheap," says Rob Arnott, chief of asset manager Research Affiliates. Now, they're extremely expensive, and destined to disappoint.
jkd
- 25 Jan 2010 17:38
- 4711 of 21973
Bb
thanks for that. it is an interesting read. it is just one persons view.i do however like his use and knowledge of the word gravity. that to me speaks of equilibrium which i see as half way. prices will continue to gyrate around this half way level level until or unless an outside force acts upon it, according to Newtons law.it seems particularly applicable to his Oil comment at present.
as for the ftse, a pull back/retracement is long overdue and can only be good for bulls.question is how far back will it come? maybe this time, maybe not, i dont know. what i do know is that it will happen.
im usually late, because i'm often wrong. but i am still a long term bear and still currently nett long protected with stop losses.
the timing of the article is curious.
regards
jkd
edit those stop losses are actualy all either stop out at cost or stop out at profit. sometimes the use of the phrase stop loss can be misleading.