Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Thats right Tobasco thank you, you said what I meant in few words, we are in 2009. both should find ways instead of fighting or killing.

Gausie, I sure if you tried a little harder even you would understand his posting.

PTholden, With a bit or help you could read the Sun, I still await your explanation of my hypocrisy.

In this conflict there are no winners -war is dreadful-people get hurt there must be a ceasefire which will protect both populations from each other.

can you trust Hamas? No can you trust Hizbollah? No. Solution-international peacekeeping forces.
Pull the US and Uk out of Iraq and deploy a small fraction of the troops on the borders in Southern Israel.

Once the communities start to prosper economically under this protection,both sides will realise that war is destructive and futile.

Let there be peace.Jews and Arabs are both Semitic and of the same family.

Let them behave as a family for the benefit of the region and of the world.

Israel has so much to offer Gaza -let the Gazans embrace what they have.

Maybe Gausie was feeling a little grumpy last night ;)

Respect to a former yellow jersey holder - and the fact that your perhaps not so good command of our language has not deterred you from writing your thoughts, fahel.

Frankly, I have far more trouble understanding Fred's posts.

Chocoyou know I rate your views very highly.but?Freds post is as obvious as the nose on your faceIm with him all the way..

Sorry for my bad English Lang. I am with Tabasco and Fred with whatever they says.

Fred started this thread on the other side too, tabs.
Would make more sense to have one thread for both, but he thought it would be interesting to compare responses, being of the analytical persuasion.

And you still haven't answered my questions, Fred.

For those who look at BBC4 news, there was an interesting summary of the middle east problems by Jeremy Greenstock. Should be repeated a few times this am.

Choc, Have not intention of answering you question? Concentrate on the arguments not the personalities.

My questions have nothing to do with your personality, Fred.

It is your reasoning that I'm trying to evaluate.
Over the years you have posted on this board - and some of the grave humour content of the bits I catch has made me chuckle - I gather the impression now that your arguments are becoming more irrational.

I asked you about your profession, because I had some recollection of you saying, with some detail, that you'd practised pyschotherapy. Did you not propound a theory of common and personal reality?

Choci, you remind me of a puppy I had. It kept snapping at my ankles until it grew up. Its behaviour was minor irritant only.

I think the views I have advanced which are reality bound.

Perhaps, my opinion is of no account, but is does appear in line with the United Nations present views. (But I suppose when their opinions differ from yours, their opinions are inconsequential or irrational.)

I suggest you find the recent interview of Jeremy Greenstock on BBC news. Below is a synopsis.
A UN Security Council resolution has called for an immediate ceasefire, access for aid workers and a lasting solution to the conflict, but the Israeli government has rejected it.
Speaking to BBC News, the former UK ambassador to the UN, Sir Jeremy Greenstock, said he hoped Israel would stop military operations soon.
"I think it's a good resolution and needs to be implemented but the Israeli army needs to take decisions on the ground under the Israeli government to implement that resolution," he said.
"The tragedy is this military action was never necessary. There has to be a political route out of the trouble."

Again what I find interesting on some of these threads, is who creeps out of the woodwork and how they group together like pack dogs..
Generally, they seem to resort to personal abuse, hoping it diverts from the main argument.

I wonder why?


Let me repeat once more:

Murder and carnage is being carried out in the name of defence.

Some appear to want to tell the bullied to stop it, but allow the bullies to continue!

How much world condemnation does the Israeli government need.

At the UN, even America is backing off in its support of Israels action.

The problem with spending time in the company of nutters is that it's only a matter of time before their behaviour rubs off. I used to have a friend who was a psychiatric nurse. She was as crazy as a box of frogs.

Fred - you're posting the same nonsense on both threads now. Why?

I may as well do the same:-


Martini - 09 Jan 2009 13:03 - 85 of 106
Dear o dear Fred the last time I saw you (with MG in tow bless him) I seem to remember opening up the conversation with "Ruth has sent me to give you a slapping"

I fear if I ever make another "Brum meet" I may have to give you a slapping for the whole BB - and I am not sure you are physically up to that!

Come to think of it neither am I!

So please Fed stop being a plonker and save us both some grief.

Fred1new - 09 Jan 2009 13:15 - 86 of 106
Martini, I think my response to you was "let me know when you start and I will finish it".

Personal abuse is not an argument.

But views of United Nations don't seem pertinent to the present problems.

Murder and carnage is being carried out in the name of defence.

Tell the bullied to stop it, but allow the bullies to continue!

How much world condemnation does the Israeli government need.

Even America is backing off at the UN.

Crazy.

Gausie - 09 Jan 2009 13:22 - 87 of 106
Fred

I think Israel's response to the threat of rocket attacks was: "let me know when you start and I will finish it"

Your double standards are hilarious.

ISRAEL SHOULD BE MOVED TO THE USA.

i am sure it is no coincidence that Israel's invasion was timed to coincide with the last days of Bush's admin ..... true to form, Bush came out with strong support, no doubt as well-pressured by the Jewish lobby (cabal would be more apposite for all sorts of good reasons!) in NY ...... i suspect Obama will be less accomodating

Fred.decent people know what you are talking aboutbut I am afraid its lost on the others.funny enough I had a meeting and done some business with a guy in Hatton Garden last year funny enough some at the meeting talked rather similar to some on here.mind you the guy I personally done business with was a real diamond geezer!

Gausie,

Distraction from the argument once again!

I have never been a pacifist, nor state that I was. However, I would prefer non-violent means of resolving confrontation or arguments. But sometimes the use of force is necessary. However, disproportionate force is never justifiable in the eyes of the majority. That is why world public opinion is against Israel at the moment.

If you feel I am so out of touch, please relate to Greenstocks Argument or the following which seems to summarise the problem

Another interesting comment is below. (Perhaps, he again is irrational.)

09/01/2009 09:13 JOHANNESBURG, Jan 9 (AFP)
Middle East conflict shows need for UN reform: S.Africa
South African President Kgalema Motlanthe said Friday that the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians has underscored the urgent need to reform the United Nations.
"I agree that the UN, and the UN Security Council in particular, is in need of urgent reform in order to become more representative of the world's population," he said in an interview in the Mail and Guardian newspaper.
He said that the United Nations was not implementing its original mandate to give equal treatment and protection to all the countries.
"The problem is that if a country has powerful friends on the Security Council, they can sometimes act with impunity," Motlanthe said.
"All you have to do is listen to the minister of foreign affairs or defence of Israel to know that you are dealing with people who believe they can cock a snook with impunity."
Motlanthe said the veto powers enjoyed by the five permanent members of the Security Council also promoted selfish interests "which is contrary to the collective and principled mandate of the United Nations."
His remarks were published after the UN Security Council voted late Thursday to call for an "immediate, durable" ceasefire in the Gaza Strip leading to a full withdrawal of Israeli troops.
The United States, Israel's strongest ally on the council, abstained from the vote.
Murder and carnage is being carried out in the name of defence.

====================================


From listening to the spokesmen of many countries of the world the overall opinion is still as below.

Murder and carnage is being carried out in the name of defence.


It also seems that even the United States can no longer support Israels present actions.

cynic
Then Hamas should have had the policical sense to realise that israel would hit back hard while Bush was there and waited for a few weeks.

i suspect Israel were intent on the action anyway and would have found an excuse ...... common sense and compromise in M/E is a rare commodity, just as it is in India/Pakistan and the Balkans

Fred

Re "Distraction from argument" - what exactly is your argument?

Perhaps you can set it out clearly - you've been banging on about all sorts of different topics, and as soon as the inevitable happens and each argument is destroyed you move onto something different.

I think you're trying to say that you abhor the violence and destruction in the middle east and it should stop immediately. If that's it then I expect everyone here would agree with you. I certainly would. But that's all violence - the invasion *AND* the rockets. If the rockets were to be given up peaceably then that would be an end to the crisis - there is no question that Israel would immediately withdraw. However, Hamas are not giving up any rockets, and so the job the Israelis are doing must be finished to meet the stated objective - ie peace for all. Until the next time.

By arguing in favoor of one side or the other only helps to perpetuate the argument, as we said before ignore them and when the money runs out an ageement will be achieved.