Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

no - won nicely today though twas only a wednesday afternoon social
have been playing truly appallingly for the last couple of months, but at last slowly getting it all together again

Hays thats Hitler talk. Shame on you.

I think Fraud is just the beginning the whole DWP is rotten from top to bottom.

When the -hit really hits the fan you are going to see some headlines.

Just a pleasure not being able to see the posts of Fred and goldfinger.

Interesting reference to Hitler, one of CR's little trolls referred to him by that name today.

mmm.

You have to be carefull here.

Employment is not a social function, the object is to get a certain task done in a sensible manner.

Certain tasks simply cannot be done by people with disabilities (various)

Wheelchair dependant peeps are unlikely to make good road diggers etc.

On the other hand, blind people make excellent call center employees.


Horses for courses...the man is a pillock!

He can duck but he can't hide.

Haze, gives me a great deal of amusement!

The past.

Hays we know your watching our postings, we arent fooled.

What next then Hays are you going to make Gay people wear pink wellys and yellow overcoats.

Here we are Hays a link just for you...........

http://ww2history.com/key_moments/Holocaust/Hitler_authorizes_killing_of_disabled

Max.

Perhaps a society has a responsibility to the less fortunate in its midst.

(Sometimes due to its indirect actions.)

Sometime is has the responsibility for the their predicaments.

I don't necessarily think that a private company should bear all the responsibility for the employee, especially if doing so leads to an "economic inefficiency" or "unnecessary cost".

This could be by an allocation of joint funding or subsidy (from public taxation) to the company to pay adequate "pay" to the individual.

The problem in some cases would be the abuse of the system by the employer!

But it does allow that individual "self pride" and makes him/her a productive member of society. (Remploy was such and organisation,)

========

The general problem is not increasing productivity but distributing the responsibility and results of productivity more evenly.

It all sounds god in theory if there was plenty of employment opportunities for disabled people. The harsh reality is that very few get any sort of job. The reason is they are potentially in competition with non disabled people. They are at a considerable disadvantage. The point of paying them a lower rate is so that they would at least have a job. Having that job gives them many benefits including their own moral. The pay rate is a difficult problem. If you stick to the minimum wage then they will rarely gets jobs.

GF.

I wear yellow overcoat sometimes.

Haven't got to pink wellies yet.

Jesus, my wife has just given me a present!

LOL Fred.

I think we should make Hays wear them after his piffle tonight.

The more I see of the news on Lord Fraud the more I realise he is a liability to the Tories so near to the election.

Think he'l last a day or two and then be gone.

A lot of disabled pensioners wont like what they hear from that man.

In 2003 the Labour government supported allowing some companies to pay people with mental health problems £4-a-day to man assembly lines. A government paper from when Patricia Hewitt was Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, which argues that that some so-called “therapeutic work” should not qualify for the minimum wage. It proposed an organisation which “runs a facility for mental health out patients, who do various activities such as packing and assembly“ can “pay varying amounts up to £20 per week“, so long as “if [workers] do not attend there are no sanctions”. The government paper concludes that under such an arrangement “there would probably not be an employer/worker relationship” and therefore “the national minimum wage would not apply“. Ironically the likes of Scope, Mencap and the TUC were consulted during the preparation of the document.

Hays,

2003.

The party of confidence tricksters have been in "power" for 4 years.

They told me that they could walk on water and had all the solutions.

Why not dig up Maggie?

Ask nurse to give you a sedative!


Sorry an overdose!

An important line is "if [workers] do not attend there are no sanctions”."

Sounds like voluntary work.

SNP have announced a further 55,000 have joined the party since the referendum. Labour are history in Scotland. Every cloud! :0)

Fred it is voluntary work. Hays in a deperate attempt to recycle old history.

From what Ive heard tonight late on Nick Clegg and the Liberals are going to go fully out tomorrow all guns blazing and try to force Fraud out.

Should be interesting TV.

Tory work and pensions minister: Disabled people ‘not worth’ minimum wage

Harry Readhead for Metro.co.uk
Wednesday 15 Oct 2014 12:45 pm



A Conservative minister has suggested that disabled people are ‘not worth’ the minimum wage.

Ed Miliband called on Lord Freud to resign from his post as work and pensions minister after his disparaging remarks, made while answering questions at a meeting of the Resolution Foundation, a living standards think-tank, during the Conservative Party conference.

The comments, which were recorded, came after a question by a Conservative councillor relating to the disabled and the National Minimum Wage.


‘There is a group – and I know exactly who you mean – where actually as you say they’re not worth the full wage,’ said Lord Freud.

‘I’m going to go and think about that particular issue, whether there is something we can do nationally, and without distorting the whole thing, which actually if someone wants to work for £2 an hour, and it’s working can we actually…’

This afternoon, however, he backtracked saying: ‘I would like to offer a full and unreserved apology.

‘I was foolish to accept the premise of the question. To be clear, all disabled people should be paid at least the minimum wage, without exception, and I accept that it is offensive to suggest anything else.

‘I care passionately about disabled people. I am proud to have played a full part in a Government that is fully committed to helping disabled people overcome the many barriers they face in finding employment.’

He added: ‘I am profoundly sorry for any offence I have caused to any disabled people.

Ed Miliband used today’s Prime Minister’s Questions to raise the issue, prompting a terse response from David Cameron, who dismissed Lord Freud’s comments as unrepresentative of his party, adding that he ‘didn’t need any lectures about looking after disabled people,’ apparently referencing his son Ivan, who had celebral palsy and epilepsy and died aged six in 2009.

A Labour source later told Sky News that Lord Freud ‘should go.’

‘These are not the words of someone who ought to be in charge of policy relating to the welfare of disabled people,’ they said.

‘Surely someone holding those views can’t be in government?’

Lord Freud has since apologised for his comments. In a statement, he said:

‘I would like to offer a full and unreserved apology. I was foolish to accept the premise of the question.

‘To be clear, all disabled people should be paid at least the minimum wage, without exception, and I accept that it is offensive to suggest anything else.

‘I care passionately about disabled people.’

Gaffe-prone Lord Freud has come under fire before for saying that families hit by bedroom tax should ‘go out to work’ or use a sofa bed when children come to stay.

THE TORIES HAVE HISTORY.........

Tory MP Philip Davies: disabled people could work for less pay
Shipley MP describes criticism of his remarks that disabled people could work for less than minimum wage as 'leftwing hysteria'

Allegra Stratton, political correspondent
The Guardian, Friday 17 June 2011 18.51 BST



A Tory MP has sparked anger by suggesting that disabled people should work for less than the minimum wage to increase their chances of being taken on by employers. [s

Philip Davies told the Commons: "If an employer is looking at two candidates, one who has got disabilities and one who hasn't, and they have got to pay them both the same rate, I invite you to guess which one the employer is more likely to take on.

"Given that some of those people with a learning disability clearly, by definition, cannot be as productive in their work as somebody who has not got a disability of that nature, then it was inevitable that, given the employer was going to have to pay them both the same, they were going to take on the person who was going to be more productive, less of a risk.

"My view is that for some people the national minimum wage may be more of a hindrance than a help.

"If those people who consider it is being a hindrance to them, and in my view that's some of the most vulnerable people in society, if they feel that for a short period of time, taking a lower rate of pay to help them get on their first rung of the jobs ladder, if they judge that that is a good thing, I don't see why we should be standing in their way."

The mental health charity Mind dismissed the Shipley MP's comments as "preposterous". Richard Hawkes, chief executive of disability charity Scope, said the MP had got it "seriously wrong". "This reveals a lot about how we value disabled people – and what we think they have to offer when it comes to work," he said. "In fact disabled people can contribute as much to a workplace as anyone else.

Davies has a history of making controversial statements out of sync with his party high command. A Conservative party spokesman said: "These comments do not reflect the views of the Conservative party and do not reflect government policy."

In the debate, Davies was challenged over his remarks by fellow Tory MP Edward Leigh, who told him: "Why actually should a disabled person work for less than £5.93 an hour. It is not a lot of money, is it?"

But Davies said criticism of his remarks was "leftwing hysteria".

He said he had talked to people with mental health problems when he met recently with the charity Mind, and he said they agreed with his analysis.

Labour's Anne Begg, chair of the work and pensions select committee, called the remarks "outrageous and unacceptable".

"To suggest that disabled people should be treated as second class citizens is shocking and shows just what a warped world some Tories demonstrate they inhabit," she said.