Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Fred's views amaze me.

In his opinion:-

1. The use of lethal force to attract world attention is OK - He'd have done the same.
2. The use of lethal force to defend against lethal force is unacceptable to him.

Can anyone make sense of this?

G

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge? was Fred's second question in the header.

Fred - what was your former profession?

I've rarely seen such parroting of hard left pro-extremist anti-Israel Nazi-like propaganda slogans as from Fred today. Hamas, Hizbollah, LeT, AQ, they would all be proud of him. As would Goebbels and his democratically elected Fuhrer.
No-one and nothing is going to change his mind. Facts do not get in the way of such self-opinionated blind drivel.
I'm not in the habit of making unpleasant statements about anyone but I see he makes personal insults about the intelligence of anyone who doesn't see things his way. Typical of those who look and only see what they choose to see, and disregard the rest.
I have seen much better and balanced reporting on the conflict on Al-Jazeera TV news than in Fred's Goebbels-speak. That says it all.
You cannot discuss rationally with the irrational - it's as simple as that.
And you can sneer and insult me all you like, Fred. It's of no consequence. Any respect I ever had for you has evaporated.
Richard

Richard
I was about to write something similar re Fred and his inability to see any other opinion, but u have written it so much better than I could. I totally agree with your comments.

Personally, I think that Fred delights in provoking this sort of argument. I'm quite convinced that he enjoys every minute of the outrage that he seeks to foment.

Where's Ruth when you need her :-)

It is not strange that the majority of the UN don't agree with the views written above by Gausie and cohorts.

It is not strange that the views expressed from various European governments don't seem to laud the ongoing Israeli aggression.

I think that many of you would be wiser if they spent a little time looking at the recent history of the Middle East. (the last 80 years would do). Also, it may help to reread that which I have actually written and consider it before responding like headless chickens.

Choc, as stated before, I consider myself a journeyman. This stems from a job I had when I was sixteen. It was putting a spike on the last dram of a journey before it made its way up an incline.

Like many of my jobs I have learnt a lot from those around me. My education still continues and is not stuck in false ideology.

Fred, it was not a fatuous question.
My memory isn't so great on this sort of thing - were you a doctor in the medical field, and if so, which one?

MM. Again, you are to a certain degree right. (The ageing process is helping your development; perhaps, there is hope for you yet.) You are right, I do like to see the flags people fly under, or hold allegiance to.

I have to admit in the 1950s I had a sneaking admiration for the Israel and its development. I work with a colleague for 10 years without realising he was Jewish and then for another 10 or so years. He was very able, and in general, we got on well. Also, over the years I have had a number of Jewish friends. I think the majority of them would hold similar views about the present problems as I hold.

Unfortunately, my admiration for Israel has grown smaller over the last 30 years and still continues to diminish. Not for the individuals who make up a population, but what is done as a collective body in their name.

Probably, you wont understand this posting either. But there may be a few out there who do.

Fred,

If, as you claim, you really have learned so much from those around you over the years, it might be worth noting that your views really aren't shared by the majority on this thread. I do hope you'll learn, because at the moment you're out on a limb with fruitcakes like George Galloway and Annie Lennox.

Kayak, Ruth is right here reading and watching Fred make a right tit of himself,

Think hes on a mission to fall out with everyone on this site,
he does have some funny views and priorities in life,and his double standards are quiet bizzare,
The mind boggles,

Choc. I have had various careers over the last fifty-five years. What they were is the business of those who employed me, or have known me and myself through that period. Some of those periods were of doubtful value to myself, or others.

PS. My validity of argument or as a person, is not based on my careers, gender, religion or race.

Fred
As one of your 'headless chickens'I wish to make clear the following. I do NOT laud the ongoing aggression fro either side in this conflict, Ican not understand how you can expect Israel to sit down and negotiate with Hamas and its allies while still demanding the end of the state of Israel
I want to see an end of all the war in the middle east but only when all sides (Israel/ Iran included) are prepared to negotiate without pre demands other than the rights of each other to exist in peace.

Stable, Because, when you sit down, everything becomes negotiable. At the end of the day, it is what happens. Why some of the innocent have to perish in the meanwhile, is to me crazy. ie MAD.

It has nearly always happened. Notable exceptions being Vietnam and Somali.

For me, resolution of the problems in the Middle East may come by considering the people as a whole ie. Palestinians, Israeli, and other groups as a single group and negotiating for the benefit of all.

Difficult, but feasible.


That is what happened in NI. Other factors in NI were the fatigue and ageing of the protagonists.

stable,
You are, of course, right.

Reminds of the immortal words of the Bard,

" 'Tis better, dear 'headless chickens' we, than they who be headless parrots, for we speaketh the words of our very own souls, not those mindless repetitive mouthings of the blinded headless parrots.
He who thinketh to rattle the cage of those he despises learneth at the going down of the sun the bars enclose only himself".

Inspired by Bill (we band of brothers) Shaxpir (les evenements de 1415) and the "Case Of The Missing Laptop" by Ruth The Wise (2008)

M.rCharts, Something useful. I have just copied the words into my data base of sayings. But funny thing is even down the pit I never felt enclosed. How about you?

I have no interest, other than the effects on the world econonomy, in this latest middle east problem but would like to respond to this point.

'Fred1new - 07 Jan 2009 13:16 - 31 of 62

It would also need aid to enable the Palestinians to have an economically viable, independant state. This would have to be supervised by the UN.'

When Israel pulled out of Gaza the Palestinians bought vast swathes of fully functioning, productive and profitable farmland from the Jewish farmers. I assume this was all bought by means of the 'Aid' you refer to. Within months all had fallen into disrepair. I also assume that this is not the fault of general Palestinian public - even though they are brainwashed from birth - but the so called governments ulterior motives - keep them hapless and ignorant. Aid - as i mentioned in a post on the Portugese parents thread - does absolutely no good in these situations - Billions of dollars could be thrown into Palestine but it would do no good, it will all be syphoned off into swiss bank accounts, used to buy weapons or simply wasted.

Certain countries are going through what 'the developed world' has been through over the last thousand years. Its just that back then there was no 'Aid' or 'UN'. We fought it out and got over it eventually gaining stable boundaries. I'm sure it hurt like hell at the time but i'm far too young to know. With the exceptions of small regions in Ireland and Spain. I will stand corrected if Germany goes for third time lucky.

I long for the day when the world is no longer powered by oil as then most of the world would not care one bit about the middle east.

I know what i would do if i was the Israeli government (i am not Jewish and it irritates me how they got rid of the British) - take Gaza back, purge the troublemakers to the west bank and turn that coastline into one of the most desirable holiday spots on the med. Tourism would boom (sorry cheap humour.)

Aid will have no long term benefit. The people will still starve and suffer but over more and more generations.

Regarding the media - if you are a foreign entity and want perfect propoganda look no further than the British media to provide it for you.

Don't shout - just my thoughts.

Rawhide, Interesting points. If I get up in the morning and I am sober I will reply.


I promise not to shout.

Have a quick look at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4581334.stm

Another thing, Fred. You seem to have this boundless faith in the United Nations. The last useful thing I can recall the United Nations doing was in 1950, when the United Nations, led by the United States, went to war against North Korea when the North Korean Army crossed the 38th parallel and invaded South Korea.

A brief examination of the fates of the peoples on both sides of the 38th parallel now is a pretty adequate illustration of the benefits of of a capitalist democracy versus a totalitarian communist regime.