Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Evening Fred.

Stop sniping, and be objective.


How do you seeing it panning out?

The arrest warrant is supported by the leaders of all three parties, who argue it is crucial for law enforcement

so what on earth was the logic of refusing the vote?
yes, for sure there are some hard eurosceptics who would have opposed, probably on both sides, but the response to them should surely have been the equivalent of "publish and be damned"

Exactly, it emerged late last night Camoron didnt want the back bench revolt so near to the Reckless by election.

BBC Radio 4 Today ‏@BBCr4today 6m6 minutes ago

We need a vote on the European Arrest Warrant to "put it beyond legal doubt" and stop complaints from Eurosceptics - Yvette Cooper #r4today

but the tories were always going to get thumped in strood, so what's the odds ..... he's just made yet a further rod for his own back ..... what on earth were he and his so-called advisers thinking of

totally moronic springs readily to mind

Well even Tory Boy (Paul Pearce Daily Mail) on what the papers say on SKY news last night was totaly confused with the PMs actions and hes a great Camoron supporter.

The BIG give away was the Home secretarys letter sunday to Eyvette Cooper shadow Home Office, saying it would be voted on. It was there in Black and White.

The Government has behaved like a sack of greased weasels

In what may have been the first postmodern vote in Commons history, only one thing is clear: Ukip profits



Theresa May was accused of trying to pull a fast one over EAW Photo: GEOFF PUGH



By James Kirkup

8:55PM GMT 10 Nov 2014

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11222123/The-Government-has-behaved-like-a-sack-of-greased-weasels.html


MPs have voted for something. Quite what depends on who’s talking about the vote. Theresa May says the Commons has given its view on British participation in the European Arrest Warrant. John Bercow says that’s not technically accurate: the vote was on a statutory instrument that would incorporate into British law a range of European justice powers that does not include the EAW, which is already in our law. Mrs May concedes the point but insists that the vote is “indicative” on the EAW because ... well, because she says it is. Conservative MPs, who has been promised a vote on the EAW directly, beg to differ.


This may well be the first postmodern vote in Commons history, where the decision of the House is entirely subjective, its meaning and impact varying according to who is speaking. Erskine May meets Jacques Derrida, if you will.


Now, I suspect a few people reading this might not have read either Erskine May or Jacques Derrida. Those people I warmly congratulate on having spent their time on this earth more wisely than those of us who have done those things. Likewise those who have glanced at the EAW story and decided not to immerse themselves in the details. They are the normal, healthy ones here. Anyone who actually follows this stuff closely is frankly a bit odd, and certainly should not be opining on public opinion and the like, because they are utterly unrepresentative of the great British public as a whole.


That being so, I’ll let someone else take over here.


Before the vote, I tried to explain the EAW thing to a colleague, an educated and intelligent adult. After putting up with my rambling about statutory instruments and programme motions for a graciously long period of time, he said: “I didn’t understand a word of that, but I understand that the Government has behaved like a sack of greased weasels.”


Frankly, I can’t put it any better than that.

And guess who benefits when politicians at Westminster behave like a sack of greased weasels? I don’t even have to use his name, do I? But if you really need it, here’s a clue: there are nine more days until the by-election in Rochester and Strood. As things stand, Ukip is going to win quite comfortably.

David Cameron’s name will not be on the ballot paper in Rochester anymore than the EAW was on the Commons Order Paper last night. But that won’t stop the by-election vote being pretty strongly “indicative”, will it?

Here it is.........

“Thank you for your letter of 7 November. Let me be absolutely clear: Monday’s debate and vote in the House of Commons will be a debate and vote on the whole package of 35 measures – including the Arrest Warrant – which the Government wants the UK to remain part of in the national interest.

The word of a greased weasel isn't worth second hand bum paper.

Q. What is the difference between a stoat and a weasel?

A. A weasel is so easily recognised but a stoat is totally different.

Manuel.

Agree the EAW seem to me necessary and sensible. Whether they will need tweaking or not time will tell.

But this was a fight made against Cameron by the right of his own party, engineered by the Barmy Euroseptics.

Also, it was utilised politically by Labour, who enjoyed showing the split in the tory party.

Political shenanigans to rub salt into Cameron's wounds.

I think before tories attempt to smear the labour party they should spend more time examine the health of their own party.

=======

Strangely enough I don't want to see the total demise of the Tories, just a partial decapitating will do for me.

------------

Mind Haze will say it was a victory for Cameron, patching up the leaking holes below the water.

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Wonder what effect it will have on Rochester, where I guess if they wouldn't get caught some Labour would go out and canvass for UKIP.

Cameron may need some silken words, mind he is telling Russia what he is going to do to, so he knows what to do.

He has the negotiation skills of a ?. Can't think of the right comparison.

Got it, of a Hazyone.

Cameron was right. Let me try to spell it out in a way that some of the thickos can understand...

The UK opted out of a number of home affairs rules, and are looking to opt back in to the 35 which suit them best. But, before the UK can opt back in, Europe need to unilaterally agree to allow the UK to opt back in. As things stand, Spain is blocking the UK from opting back in, because it is trying to use Gibraltar as a bargaining point.

So, what's the point in having a vote in the commons on something that ain't about to happen yet?

As ever, Fishfinger is trying to make a story out of a non-event to deflect from Labour's own miserable failings, and the Daily Mail readers are throwing their toys out of the pram because Johnny Foreigner's involved.

in that case hilary, he obviously didn't get his point across very well did he!

arguably an even great cock-up that trying to con us all that GO had "saved" uk £850m ..... and what a load of cock that was, and no amount of flannel and spin can disguise the fact

the European Arrest Warrant could be abused , the US arrangement we have is one-sided and seems to be based on very flimsy evidence and petty/false accusations by American citizens, cases such as posted by ExecLine and the attempt to deport the person who hacked into their defense computer's .

The Justice system is different in all the EU country's and in the US , so you could be thrown in jail for months or years before a trial.

The Police have abused the anti terrorism law in this country, for non terrorism reasons.

Hillary let me remind you what you said last night..........

hilary Go to hilary's website View hilary's profile - 10 Nov 2014 19:52 - 49924 of 49962

Fishfinger,

MPs might want the vote tonight, but this is what Cameron actually said last week:

"I am not delaying having a vote on it. There will be a vote on it. We need, in order to have a vote on it, the small matter of a negotiation to take place within Europe, which up to now the Spanish have been blocking. I think the Spanish will shortly remove their block, and at that moment we will be able to have a vote."

NOW HERES WHAT HE ACTUALY SAID..............

goldfinger Send an email to goldfinger View goldfinger's profile - 10 Nov 2014 20:11 - 49929 of 49962 edit this post

Wrong Hilary you are missing the point where he said directly to Ed Milliband that a vote on the EAW would go ahead BEFORE the ROCHESTER by election.

Eyvete Cooper earlier in the debate read out the precise words Camoron used.
goldfinger Send an email to goldfinger View goldfinger's profile - 10 Nov 2014 20:21 - 49930 of 49962 edit this post

Here we are hilary in black and white, Ill wait for an apology thankyou.

The Prime Minister: I am not delaying having a vote on it. There will be a vote on it. We need, in order to have a vote on it, the small matter of a negotiation to take place within Europe, which up to now the Spanish have been blocking. I think the Spanish will shortly remove their block, and at that moment we will be able to have a vote.

Edward Miliband: We all know the reason why the Prime Minister is not having a vote: it is the by-election in Rochester and Strood. He is paralysed by fear of another Back-Bench rebellion on Europe. So I want to make an offer to him. We have a Labour Opposition day next week. We will give him the time for a vote on the European arrest warrant, and we will help him to get it through.

The Prime Minister: There is only one problem with the right hon. Gentleman’s second question: we are going to have a vote, we going to have it before the Rochester by-election—his questions have just collapsed.

http://labourlist.org/2014/11/tories-in-major-split-over-europe-as-may-denies-mps-vote-on-eaw-that-she-and-the-pm-promised/
goldfinger Send an email to goldfinger View goldfinger's profile - 10 Nov 2014 20:23 - 49931 of 49962 edit this post

Should have gone to spec savers my dear, its as plain as the nose on your face what he said.........

The Prime Minister: There is only one problem with the right hon. Gentleman’s second question: we are going to have a vote, we going to have it before the Rochester by-election—his questions have just collapsed.

WE ARE GOING TO HAVE IT BEFORE THE ROCHESTER BY ELECTION.

I rest my case, toodle pip.

There was a debate and a vote on the EAW. It was last night. There was an opportunity to discuss it, but people moaned about the procedure instead. The EAW was bundled with other measures and the vote was for all of them together. Almost no one bothered to comment on the EAW itself. It looks like a neat bit of footwork. Labour is now going to have a debate on it next week in an opposition day debate.